The most unequal society in the world

[Dave A]

So even if we are not THE MOST UNEQUAL society

Chris, I think you miss the point. There's no denying the poverty problem. But if the statement isn't founded in fact, you have to ask why it's being trotted out.

A deliberate attempt at polarisation, perhaps?
Where is the disunity coming from?

[ChrisNG53]

As regards your "shoot the messenger" response, I respectfully ask that you now go back to the blog and read the POST SCRIPT (since added). When you do, substitute the child mentioned for your own daughter.
Naive??????

[adrianh]

Shoot the messenger - Dude you are not the messenger, you are the author of the round about tripe written in the blog. - So no, I'm not shooting the messenger, I am shooting the author.

You are naive if you think that the reason this lot are running around shooting people is because we don't go around saying sorry all the time.

When you do, substitute the child mentioned for your own daughter

This is not an intelligent argument to support your point. What does the last bit added to your blog have to do with running around saying sorry?

[Martinco]

Ask yourself just one question – are you sorry? If you are, why have you not said it?
When you discuss this with yourself … and others, pose this question and answer first. Then recall that the Pope has said sorry for the pedophile priests … for the Vatican looking the other way during the Holocaust. East Germany has said sorry to the Jews. Australia has done the same as regards the Aborigines. The US has said sorry to Native Americans. So have the Japanese as regards the Chinese. This list is long. If you are sorry, you say it.

And what did the British say to the Afrikaner after the Boer War ? Killing thousands of women and children ? Nothing, Zip ! No TRC.
No amount of "sorry" will change the situation. Try telling a criminal holding a gun against your head that you are "sorry" and see where that gets you.
No man.......get real !

[ChrisNG53]

The most unequal society

We do not have to be the "most unequal society in the world' to be concerned; seriously concerned.
When we left Zimbabwe in 1992 it had none of the problems that we have in SA, i.e, education, health, security, energy, crime, corruption = all fine. We held to the view that there were concerns ... serious concerns. People thought we were mad to leave.The rest is history. In just 7 years (1999 - 2006) the country collapsed and over 3.5 million of us are now in the Zim Diaspora scrounging for acceptance. (My blog post "Despotism Unlimited - Robert Mugabe" refers).
So to say "well we are not the worst in the world etc" is a very dangerous argument. It is called being supine ... in the face of that which is bad, that which is wrong. It is this acquiescence that tyrants and bad governments thrive on. It is an acceptance of "powerlessness" which will ultimately ensure "victimization".
Government needs to be held accountable. To do that, we first need to ensure clarity about our own thinking.

[ChrisNG53]

Butch, I think you a right on the money. We should be trying to be the best that we can be. We should certainly be better than the apartheid regime. The ultimate obscenity is that people are "liberated" and end up infinitely worse off then they were under "oppression". Also re-assuring is the reality check about the World Cup on your blog site.

[adrianh]

It is an acceptance of "powerlessness" which will ultimately ensure "victimization".

Yes, yes, just like the Palistinians, Iraqi's & Afghans, they accepted "powerlessness" and ensured "victimization" because they didn't have the big policeman of the earth backing them.

Then of course there are the Zimbabweans who are simply too lazy to stand up for their rights and fight their own battles.

You wanna stand up, cool, but stop whinging like a little girl saying you're sorry. You can't beat a little Barbie toy drum on the sidelines and expect anybody to care about what you have to say.

Bob Marley not only speaks for the black man, he speaks for all men:

Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!

Preacher man, don't tell me,
Heaven is under the earth.
I know you don't know
What life is really worth.
It's not all that glitters is gold;
'Alf the story has never been told:
So now you see the light, eh!
Stand up for your rights. come on!

Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!
Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!

Most people think,
Great god will come from the skies,
Take away everything
And make everybody feel high.
But if you know what life is worth,
You will look for yours on earth:
And now you see the light,
You stand up for your rights. jah!

Get up, stand up! (jah, jah! )
Stand up for your rights! (oh-hoo! )
Get up, stand up! (get up, stand up! )
Don't give up the fight! (life is your right! )
Get up, stand up! (so we can't give up the fight! )
Stand up for your rights! (lord, lord! )
Get up, stand up! (keep on struggling on! )
Don't give up the fight! (yeah! )

We sick an' tired of-a your ism-skism game -
Dyin' 'n' goin' to heaven in-a Jesus' name, lord.
We know when we understand:
Almighty god is a living man.
You can fool some people sometimes,
But you can't fool all the people all the time.
So now we see the light (what you gonna do?),
We gonna stand up for our rights! (yeah, yeah, yeah! )

So you better:
Get up, stand up! (in the morning! git it up! )
Stand up for your rights! (stand up for our rights! )
Get up, stand up!
Don't give up the fight! (don't give it up, don't give it up! )
Get up, stand up! (get up, stand up! )
Stand up for your rights! (get up, stand up! )
Get up, stand up! (... )
Don't give up the fight! (get up, stand up! )
Get up, stand up! (... )
Stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up!
Don't give up the fight! /fadeout/

[Dave A]

We do not have to be the "most unequal society in the world' to be concerned; seriously concerned.

Exactly! (although I suspect our frame of reference remains far from in sync).

My reference to Malawi was far from coincidental. It's stable, doesn't have the crime and violence levels we have, and yet appears to be a far more unequal society than SA.

The poverty is far worse; the middle class has a better lifestyle than in SA...

Perhaps it's not an unequal society that is the real danger in SA, but the political hyenas...

[Martinco]

Perhaps it's not an unequal society that is the real danger in SA, but the political hyenas...

Absolutely !!! A big contribution to the poverty in this country.

[ChrisNG53]

The most unequal society

My reference to Malawi was far from coincidental

Socio-economic equality is but one, though a pretty powerful indicator, of a rotten State.
Malawi has its roots in the Banda era. Banda was a ruthless dictator as regards power, but very benevolent as regards socio - economic matters.
So, given its under resourced status it did much better, under Banda, than other far better resourced "liberated" African countries under "sloganeering" corrupt leaders.

[adrianh]

Chris - the thing that gets me down is this:

A lot of whites left SA in the past 20 years. Many of us stayed because we see a future for the country. We are pushed out of our jobs due to BEE, we are excluded from various investment opertunities and better still we are told to say that we are sorry for being here. Now you know, I don't care about the BEE thing (I gave up long ago on looking for employment in SA and run a small business) nor the investment thing (I don't have any money to invest anyway), but I am sick and tired of being told that the country is a corrupt, criminal mess because of the old regime and because of the whites that are still left here.

If I believed that walking around with a banner saying "I'm sorry for the sins of my fathers" would stop criminals from shooting 3 year olds, taking R20K to murder a pretty young girl, rape anything in a skirt, etc. I would have such a banner permanently tattood on my forehead.

[ChrisNG53]

The most unequal society

Chris - the thing that gets me down is this:

AdrianH - You describe a debilitation frustration that I, and I think so many others also feel.
We cannot, however, just sit around and moan about it. It has to be confronted and knocked over. Lead SA is all "raa raa" about this. Regrettably is is all very well intetioned but will fail for being superficial.
You cannot cure skin blemishes and puss pimples with cream etc when the "underlying" cause is a blood disorder.
We have very serious fundamental problems which are the drivers, precipitants and facilitators of our day to day problems.
One of them is BEE, a product of a racist application of Affirmative Action. See the "Twin Towers" post on my blog site.
So at the very heart of our macro management model we have the same evil culture that was at the heart of apartheid. Evil begets evil. Other deviance, such as corruption, nepotism etc, naturally finds its roots in such a bed.
Now, we will never be able to tackle and knock over any of it, until we speak with one voice. And to do that we have to have national reconciliation, which starts with forgiveness.
Helen Zille is doing very well. If she wants to, at one stroke, accelerate the process to an ideal/model province she should implement a program of racial reconciliation ... and it starts with simply saying sorry.

[adrianh]

Saying sorry - How do you propose this to be done?

[ChrisNG53]

The most unequal society

Saying sorry - how do you suggest this be done

I am not sure. White folks need to work this out for themselves ... if it is to be genuine. On my blog post I advance my own idea on the thing.

In closing my contribution on this and the "Why shoot a 3 year old" topic I want to ask where can Zola Budd be found.
You see this barefooted stripling of an Afrikaner girl, despite the evil of apartheid, somehow managed to touch and melt the hearts of our Black brothers and sisters. They spoke of her with tears in their eyes.
I think her small frame mirrored their own vulnerability. I think her barefootedness said to them "I am an African".
They loved her deeply.
She needs to come back and lead a national program of reconciliation.

[Dave A]

An interesting piece here on Technology's Role In Inequality.

Median income in Silicon Valley reached $94,000 in 2013, far above the national median of around $53,000. Yet an estimated 31 percent of jobs pay $16 per hour or less. It’s hard not to wonder whether Silicon Valley, rather than just exemplifying this growing inequality, is actually contributing to it, by producing digital technologies that eliminate the need for many middle-class jobs.

Some serious food for thought in there.