DA Policies?

[Dave A]

Bringing that party back (National Party/DA) would mean

Denial is a river that runs through Egypt.

What are they doing to improve the lives of black people from all over Western Cape because NP was doing the very same thing DA is doing today, the last thing I remember is that they provided bucket system for people of Khayelitsha, you would ask yourself ok it was a short term solution but where else was such an insulting thing done to the people?

Let's bring you up to speed then.

Bucket system still rife in SA
2013-05-16 16:14
Johannesburg - About 272 995 bucket toilet systems are still being operated by municipalities, Co-operative Governance Minister Richard Baloyi said on Thursday.

"There was a time I thought the bucket system was gone... that it had exited our space, but this number came out when we were assessing the state of sanitation," Baloyi said in Kempton Park.

He was speaking at a conference on municipal audit outcomes, attended by mayors, municipal managers, heads of provincial departments, and Auditor General Terence Nombembe.

Baloyi did not say which municipalities still operated the bucket system.

I wonder why he didn't name the municipalities?

Well, here's one of them (seeing as you asked).

But perhaps more interestingly, here are some other hard numbers coming out of this story - Storm erupts in South Africa over bucket toilets

Early last month (that would be May 2013), Human Settlements Minister, Tokyo Sexwale, told Parliament that 2.278 million households in South Africa do not have toilets.

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Early last month (that would also be May 2013), the mayor of Cape Town, Patricia de Lille, said in a statement that her administration intends to replace all ‘bucket toilets’ with portable flush toilets, but the efforts are being resisted by some residents who prefer to use the former.

Noting that there are 958 bucket toilets known and serviced by the city, she said they will nevertheless press on with replacing them in order to provide city residents with better services.

"The City is determined to replace any vestige of the bucket with portable flush toilets (PFTs). The City currently has approximately 12, 500 portable flush toilets (PFTs) in storage. These units will now be provided to areas identified as still using the 'bucket system' to ensure the complete eradication of this system," she said.

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And of course the killer blow in comparing ANC vs DA performance in this regard just has to be -

This is not the first time that South Africa has had to contend with a toilet-shortage-related crisis, one of the legacies of the apartheid era that ended in 1994. In 2009, South African media kicked up a storm when it exposed poor toilet facilities in the Free State and Cape Town.

Mr Sexwale responded by instituting a commission in 2011 headed by Winnie Mandela to look into the matter and suggest possible solutions. The South African Government later set a deadline of December 2014 to eradicate bucket toilets.

However, the government is running behind its own schedule. According to local reports, the government this year cut the budget for rural toilets by 28 per cent from $48.9 million (about R479 million) to $35.7 million (about R350 million), meaning that it will have to cut back on the number of toilets it had earlier planned to build.

With the government at sixes and sevens over how to sort out the toilet shortage problem across the country, it is likely that many poor South Africans will continue to use the hated bucket toilets for the foreseeable future, as Mr Sexwale conceded before Parliament in early May.

Dix, I do hope you're not just trying to wind me up to say "nice" things about the DA. And it's certainly not my intention. I generally try my best to be apolitical, and I've been very critical of the DA before.

But you really need to pick your battles carefully. When it comes to head-to-head comparisons between DA and ANC on a number of issues...
Well, you didn't pick a good one there I'm afraid.

[dix]

I'm not sure whether we disagree or agreeing but let me rephrase myself in a better way, I never saw in this country a bucket system being replaced by a white bucket system (they changed the name and called it pota-pota) but the DA/NP which was always looking down on black people did it.

Note very well that there were buckets toilets in there (Khayelitsha) and the temporally solution would be to provide public flush toilets until those informal settlements are provided a better place were they can have inside flush toilets.

The facts speak here that the DA is still the same old National Party, ask yourself why did the administration of Zille provide open toilets for people of Makhaza in Khayelitsha (my answer is that they were black because she never did that to any of colords population who dwell in informal settlements).

Do you know how mana pota-pota were manufactured by that service provider and were all targeting black townships, and why would we say that it was a short term solution given such a number of pota-potas, besides the budget she used in those pota-potas far exceeds the budget to build nearby flush toilets, lets not mention that the service provider was white.

Moreover on the bucket system you just mentioned being used in some remote areas which the ANC led government is working it, the DA/NAtional Party government never gave it thought that those black people should receive flush toilets as well all because they were in remote areas.

Why is the number of black electorates so down in DA for parliamentary positions? and do you know that it was the decision of IEC that made them to increase the number of black electorates even though after the increase black representatives are still unacceptably very low.

Lastly do you know how many leaders of DA are involve in allegations having to do with racism? compare that with ANC

[dix]

Before you can answer that my friends, remember that in 1994 elections National Party won the Western Cape province and it's death was followed by the rise of DA of which members of NP joined or supported DA and hence DA/NP was victorious in the Western Cape in all elections that followed, can't you see that it is logical here to say that DA is NP in disguise?

How many members of NP did join the ANC, who are they? are they still there?

[Dave A]

The facts speak here that ...

Actually, some hard facts and numbers that support your opinion would prove useful.

So far we've accounted for just under 1000 bucket toilets in the country. Where are the other 272 000 and who is running the municipalities that they fall under?

Let's clear that one up before we move on to kort broek & co.

[Marq]

Dix...Before you can answer that my friends, remember that in 1994 elections National Party won the Western Cape province and it's death was followed by the rise of DA of which members of NP joined or supported DA and hence DA/NP was victorious in the Western Cape in all elections that followed, can't you see that it is logical here to say that DA is NP in disguise?

How many members of NP did join the ANC, who are they? are they still there?

What was left of the the Nationalist Party was merged with the ANC. Its last leader Marthinus van Schalkwyk is still there today as Minister of Environmental affairs.
I cannot recall one NP member that joined the DA which made its own way without the help of any other party.

The DA comes out of the Progressive party which prior to that was the United Party. That party was set up in opposition to The NP and its apartheid principles. While people like yourself wish to ensure that all white people are painted with the apartheid brush, there were many who actually fought for the opposite. Its these people who you insult today with your vitriol and unresearched diatribe. Your logic is equally faulty.

I would suggest that if you wish to carry on with this method of debate, then you find some other forum to exercise your brainwashed flawed thinking.

[HR Solutions]

DA is still the same old National Party

The DA comes out of the Progressive party

I think you have a contradiction here !!

[dix]

What was left of the the Nationalist Party was merged with the ANC. Its last leader Marthinus van Schalkwyk is still there today as Minister of Environmental affairs.
I cannot recall one NP member that joined the DA which made its own way without the help of any other party.

The DA comes out of the Progressive party which prior to that was the United Party. That party was set up in opposition to The NP and its apartheid principles. While people like yourself wish to ensure that all white people are painted with the apartheid brush, there were many who actually fought for the opposite. Its these people who you insult today with your vitriol and unresearched diatribe. Your logic is equally faulty.

I would suggest that if you wish to carry on with this method of debate, then you find some other forum to exercise your brainwashed flawed thinking.

So Marq you saying to me that these other guys like you were unhappy with the apartheid system just that you couldn't avoid the benefits of it, sounds good just like Zille was unhappy with the apartheid system as a Journalist but kept the benefits and after the death of NP/DA she realize the need to form a political party that consisted mainly of white people and lured unsuspecting black people who were not aware of their dirty schemes to control our land again.

Guys we know that Britain contributed to the liberation of black people in South Africa because it was them who backed us while you people were buys gathering everything that belonged to us.

Dave cannot go further because I think I'm in agreement with you here not unless some-else clears the air for me

[Marq]

@Dix
Go and join the EFF forum.
You can cry and blame, dig up the past and make up the all the history you want to hear over there.
But dont come back here and tell all how they lured an unsuspecting stirrer over and you dont understand the history they have over there either.

[Dave A]

Before we start getting the moer in with each other here - chew on this thought for a moment please:

You can cry and blame, dig up the past and make up the all the history you want to hear over there.

I'm not convinced Dix's views are entirely his own creation. You need to bear in mind there's been quite a long run now of propaganda at work trivialising "non-ANC" efforts against apartheid. That there are believers that this is the whole truth should come as no surprise.

Out of (not so idle) curiosity - how old are you, Dix?

[pmbguy]

Yes blame everything on apartheid and the white man. Without the arrival of europeans black people would not have these problems because there is a whole different set of problems in an Iron Age society.

[dix]

We need each other for trade purposes pmbguy but not to steal from each other, that's how we people work and it has always been like that until other white people came to claim belongings to our land from our peaceful fathers.

I'm 30 sir but can consider as older than all of you because I am

[Marq]

I'm not convinced Dix's views are entirely his own creation. You need to bear in mind there's been quite a long run now of propaganda at work trivialising "non-ANC" efforts against apartheid. That there are believers that this is the whole truth should come as no surprise.

Sure there's propaganda that's bent the history and these views are not of his making.

If you want to keep batting away with that propaganda, without listening, doing any research or applying any logic, while accusing those you dont know of stealing and being dirty then you better have a real good story, which I do not see here. In fact there has been no input to solve anything from that side.

This continual digging in the past, accusing all and sundry and crying into their porridge about apartheid is not going to help anyone go forward either. All its managing to do, is to maintain tension and draw lines in the sand.

While we are listening to, being patient with and chewing on all these thoughts that the sheeple do not want to process, the country is going backwards. I started this thread with the idea that the opposition was pandering to the supporters of the main party and questioned its focus. It was a discussion on policies which has been hijacked by an individual who would rather discuss bucket systems, apartheid and the national party, none of which are relevant to moving the people of this country in a positive direction.

So if he wants discuss the bucket system and tell us how kak everything is then he should rather start his own thread on this subject and see if he can rile anybody up there. The same was done on another thread this week which was discussing the anti-gay situation. It all very well and interesting seeing where threads end up but when they are taken on the same BS journey down this endless rabbit hole with accusations and rubbish it all becomes rather pointless.

[dix]

DA policies are there to tell us about what DA does and what it stands for, off which all that we were talking about here was centered on DA sir, if we are to debate then expect others to differ from you otherwise we will all pretend to be happy but inside we are full of hatred of which that doesn't help, now that you know that other black people are not happy with the current situation of South Africa that is knowledge you can use of which is the purpose of the debate but not to show anger or unfounded criticism.

Try to accommodate our differences and we will also do the same, and lastly I didn't join the forum to show anger against white people as you may perceive but to voice out my thoughts.

Anti gay laws were started by me and I understand that some people at some cases might come up with other views that can be helpful at the end of the day and the idea is to let the conversation flow as long as it is directed to a certain point at the end, that's how I do it.

Peace up!!!

[pmbguy]

Dix I agree that we must work together. I also agree that Black Africans have been dispossessed from their land by White people, Same goes for when Black African tribes possessed the land of the San. We can go on and on and history will show that all peoples throughout time are at times the aggressor and at other times the victim. This cycle will continue forever until we stop using previous conflict with each other as fuel for further conflict.

[Dave A]

I'm 30 sir but can consider as older than all of you because I am

Thanks, Dix. And rest assured I did not ask the question out of any desire to establish or question your level of maturity.

What I wanted to understand better was exactly what events might have been part of your personal experience, and how much of your paradigm might be reliant on the retelling of history.

Kinda late in the evening for me to put together a long post arising from that awareness, but here's a suggestion for now - please consider researching Marq's post to verify for yourself whether the points he makes are actually fact. Of particular importance is his assertion that:

The DA comes out of the Progressive party which prior to that was the United Party. That party was set up in opposition to The NP and its apartheid principles.

EDIT: Perhaps not needed now. I see as I was chewing over a reply, things have moved along to more constructive engagement