Democracy

[Blurock]

The problems we face today are there because...
The people who work for a living, are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

Is democracy still the best option?

[adrianh]

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Winston Churchill

[Citizen X]

My naïve political view on democracy!
1. Plato, the founder of the world’s first university “the Academy,” strongly believed that democracy doesn’t work in practice. It was democracy that sentenced his teacher Socrates to death on the charges of impiety and corrupting the youth with knowledge,
2. Plato belived that the cure for all the ills and wrongs of society was not in politics but in philosophy. He believed that all the ills of society would not be resolved adequately until philosophers became rulers and rulers philosophers;
3. Plato provided that the cure for the medical condition of ignorance is knowledge;
4. His stance was actually very simple: if we only knew what justice was, then the problems associated with being just would be comparatively simple!
5. If one summaries the book of Republics in a few sentences(not easy to do , trust me) then one should state that Plato believed that people in general are bad judges in many political matters.” He will judge on impulse, sentiment or prejudice and though his heart may be sound his head will be muddled.”
6. Plato believed that democracy encourages bad leadership. He reasoned this as follows: “ The people’s judgement of their leaders is not always good and they can’t be trusted to make the best choice. Leaders will play on the likes and dislikes, the weaknesses and foibles of the public, will never tell them an unpleasant truth or advocate a policy that might make them uncomfortable.” Like the modern advertiser he is dependant on his public

[Dave A]

So if not via democracy, how would you appoint leaders then?

I suspect the problem we face is not that democracy is flawed, but that democracy is the best option among all the other flawed options out there.

[Blurock]

So if not via democracy, how would you appoint leaders then?

Leaders will lead, no matter what. The problem is just that we do not have leaders. In business and in politics it is clear that there is a lack of effective leadership. Populists are now being promoted or voted to power and we know the result of that...

[Dave A]

Leaders will lead, no matter what. The problem is just that we do not have leaders. In business and in politics it is clear that there is a lack of effective leadership. Populists are now being promoted or voted to power and we know the result of that...

I get you where you're going, but...

Perhaps let me rephrase the selection issue -
What system do you propose for followers to formally choose the leader they wish to follow?

Democracy isn't the sole part of our dilemma though. Seeing as democracy is obviously flawed, there has to be limits on the powers of these political leaders - checks and balances by forces other than the ballot box. It's why an independant judiciary is so important, an active "civil society", a free press, a politically independant civil service, limits on government's political interference in the activities of business...

Arguably all things that our current political leadership is trying to take control of

[Citizen X]

Yes, we need a true separation of powers and no interference whatsoever by the State in the judiciary.

[adrianh]

[Blurock]

So if a democracy is flawed, what would be the answer? Communism has failed dismally, we do not want a dictatorship, monarchy military rule or theocracy. Federalism, a social republic, plutocracy, oligarcy or totalitarian rule?

Can we define the current government as a kleptocratic paedocracy?

[Justloadit]

I think that a value of a vote should be directly proportional to the education level.

No education - 1 Vote
Up to Grade 7 - 2 Votes
Up to grade 11 - 3 Votes
Secondary education Certificate 4 - Votes
Secondary education Diploma - 8 Votes
Secondary Education - Degree and higher - 10 Votes

This will have a 2 fold effect, firstly it places emphasis on education, and secondly the more educated one is, the more intelligent the vote cast will be.

A one man one vote is definitely not the solution, the masses are too easily fooled in to believing.

[AndyD]

I think that a value of a vote should be directly proportional to the education level.

In that case a very clear definition of the phrase 'education level' would be required. If you mean politically educated then I'd be inclined to agree if you mean someone whos been thorough focussed tertiary education such as a diploma or degree then this would not qualify them for special treatment in my book because that education wouldn't make them any more qualified to make a decsion about government or politics.

[adrianh]

Andy....I agree with you 100%

[Justloadit]

Oh well back to one man one vote then.....

If we carry on doing the same thing, why would we expect a different result?

I would have thought that education would allow you to see the fraud taken place in front of your eyes, and not to accept any story fed to you by politicians. I would think that education would open your eyes to the lies being dished out, and when one is educated you tend to understand the promises made will never happen, however when you are not educated, you tend to believe your leaders, you do not know any better because after all the politicians are are educated now aren't they, and they should know better.

[Doug B]

I wouldn't say democracy is not without it's flaws but isn't the real problem what has already been mentioned, the curbing of free speech, intimidation of voters, jobs for pals like the good old Nats did. It's not that democracy is wrong, personally I can't see a better system, what I can see is an attempt to hijack a system and that spells disaster - dictatorship, and we all know where that leads. That is one of the reasons why it is in every South African's best interest to keep an eye on the likes of your Malema's.

[AndyD]

......and that spells disaster - dictatorship,

What's the difference between democracy and an opt-in 4 year dictatorship?