humans the virus?

[murdock]

are we the worst virus on earth....considering we consume everything in our path without any consideration for any other form of life?

the human being destroys everything in it quest for a "beter future"....mmm....we complain about the monkeys trying to get food out our kitchen...yet we took away the trees which they lived in and fed off before we came along...is it the survival of the strongest...the solutions just kill them off before they become a danger to us...in fact just kill anything that might seem like a danger...snakes...etc

we must be the most gulible creature on earth.

[garthu]

Murdock, this is an interesting topic! I certainly believe in what you are saying, we reproduce knowing exactly what the outcome will lead to, we destroy what we can, what we create generally destroys (OK thats up for debate with new green technology but use the word debate)

I think the efforts made to "turn things around" are really just a "feel good" effort, they going to extend our stay, but not solve the problems. The chinese birth control policy's were hectic, controversial, but looking at the reality is probably the only hope the planet and its existence have but of course no government can admit to being a part of that after all it infringe on constitution

Could go on for hours with this one!

[Dave A]

The rate at which we are multiplying is definitely a problem. I just can't understand that there is so little discussion on bringing population growth under control.

Every time I see a prediction that there will be so many more people by 2050 or 2100, it seems to come with a view that this is a challenge for our technology to cope with. Heck, technology isn't giving us a sustainable lifestyle at current population levels - what chance is there that somehow it will deal with double the global population and reduce the demand on the world's resources to a third of current levels?

It looks like mission extremely unlikely to me.

[Justloadit]

All technology is doing is to make the use of it more efficient, so that there are more parasites to live with the same amount of input. Something has to give, maybe climate change will solve this. The earth will always make sure that all forces balance.

[tec0]

The human virus?

Humanity was never a virus, humanity was pure once, but it seems so very, very long ago now. Tough out human evolution humanity had leaders, some were warmongers others spiritual. Humanity seeded devastation, humanity became addicted to control.

When humanity figured out that a rock could kill something they have been looking for an excuse to throw it. Well our rocks became better but our primal mentality never changed. If one look at nature, one would find that everything evolved on the rule of scarcity. If one look at our economy one would that yes it is indeed based on scarcity.

However, now we talk about population control? Of all the things we have given up now we need to regulate life? Nobody has the right to tell anybody “sorry you are not allowed to procreate”. Well regardless nature has a way to correct itself so it will do just that.

But humanity is not a virus; we just need to figure out what we really want and work towards it. Right now we are just slaves to the system.

[adrianh]

Humanity was never a virus, humanity was pure once

ag, k_k man....

Humans are not a virus - we are a cancer - an organism / mutation that figured out how to survive against all odds. The human mind sits in a recursive loop feeding itself how wonderful it is and how God created it in his image - interesting theory - God created the Isrealis, the Palistinians, the Americans and the Afgans, the North Vietnamese and the South Vietnamese. No my friend, we are all a cancer that evolved into different strains - each strain out to survive.

The cokkeroach is a better invention - it can live on anything, has 6 legs, 2 aerials, runs around for days with its head chopped off and can even survive a nuclear explosion.

Don't kid yourself - man is not the greatest creation -we are a missmash of evolutionary progression - a bit of a buggerup actually - we believe in all sorts of clap trap presented to us in the name of religion - Constantine the Great sure pulled a fast one on humanity...yet we are too stupid to realize it.

[garthu]

Yup Tec0, this one i have to disagree. We HAVE to control population, the right not to is just a constitutional thing again. The issue of course governments wont have the guts (certainly cant blame them as it would be political suicide). The right to procreate is not survival anymore, it will lead to our end, population control is about the only thing that could lead to survival, or do we take over another planet somewhere and destroy that also.

The reality, its economics in my mind. A negative population growth... oil prices down, gold down, development down, all the people who control money losing out big, it would never be allowed. Maybe money is the root of all evil although i have always maintained the lack of it generally is?

And pure?.... Adam screwed up in the very first days of life with the apple?? (so they say)

[tec0]

Well, personally I have given up on written scriptures and dogma. The truth is we simply don’t know. If one look at the religious evolution yes some good did “eventually” come of it but is still mostly bad. It is hard to look past the torture and murder.

But I refuse to belief that we are cancer or a virus. Yes one must give nature credit, when it comes to evolution. The insect world is beating us hands down. But we have begun to modify the DNA of worms and flies to live twice as long then what they normally would.

Maybe in the next 100 or so years we will get to live longer. With that maybe travel to mars? Perhaps our destiny is to take life from this planet to the next?

Yes “if you belief in it” Adam and Eve screwed up, I for one am grateful they did. If you think about it, and realise in early human evolution smart people where made king and as history has shown us; this system is stupid... Yet we are still doing it?

So we are not perfect... Yet trough rational thought we can realise that perfection is flawed because it creates an imbalance. But if we forget history and just delete all the crap. And say “Ok 2011 is the new year 1” and we take everything what we have learned and just simply implement it then year 2 will be the first step of our new direction. Imagine where we will be 50 years from now?

Like everything we mourn life. Yet we only get one chance at life? In order to learn we must make every single mistake there is to make. Because once we know we can work around those mistakes “perhaps even fix a few” along the way, and in the long run prevent these mistakes.

A young human life is full of magic and possibility it grows and contemplates... But because we cannot let go of the past, new life cannot evolve because our kings wants to hurt other kings by mass murder. Thus life became a curse... But we follow these monsters we give them our children like we did in the early years by sacrificing our women and children and the elderly.

For that to change we need to take the first step. Get rid of this system, for clearly it is not working “it never did” secondly if our gods cannot respect life, then they are not gods thus we need not worry about them. Thirdly rewrite all human law, and base it only on morality. By keeping it simple, we can understand it use it and allow it to regulate our lives.

See we are not like a virus or a cancer. We can change our natural programming. We can have an idealistic life. But the people in control don’t want this... they want to be in control. But the truth is just by pure numbers “there is 8 billion+ of us” so we can devaluate there systems and take control.

If you think “humanity cannot function without incentive” you are seriously mistaken because “incentive” is artificial. Life is natural it always was... The reality of the situation is, we lost control and with it meaning. And life without meaning is not life it becomes death. A mental and physical death.

But the truth is we can change it if we really want to... we can change it...

[garthu]

Good points put forward, no doubt. Yes we can change, we should but don't, thats the concern. It's always politics and money that dictate our tomorrow, even if we choose not to agree personally, we don't really have a choice but to follow. Reckon this is one of those we just both have to agree to disagree and be happy with our opinions - after all its always fascinated me... who is actually right in any debate/opinion??

[tec0]

Getting people to realise that they are in control and do have a choice is probably the most difficult thing to do. I strongly recommend you sit back and think about this.

“IF” tomorrow a strange big rock from outer-space slams into earth and you survived along with 90 other people and you are left to rebuild humanity...

Will you start by seeking a shelter or will you nominate a leader? Remember now, the world is in ruin and every decision you make will count.

Once you answer that question you will realise it is not a matter of circumstance that dictates your decisions. Rather your point of view and mindset.

[garthu]

Sure we do have choice, i was referring more to the things which we dont, like tax, paying for Malema to drive smart car, not high on my priorities, in fact just about everything we pay tax on i hate with a passion as it is badly utilized, that i have no choice really. Please dont say vote differently!! Another thread (not to go off topic or debate here) agrees that ANC wouldn't walk anyway!

I can make choice about how i make money, how we live, how i spend free time, how i educate my kids (even that is debatable according to government)

I dont choose to complain generally, rather look for the positives. To answer, i wouldn't choose a leader. Although animal kingdoms seem to suggest it would be correct to have an Alpha, but it surely hasnt worked for us! Leaders at some point, always seem to be in it for themselves (maybe thats a bit to general) ... kinda like a cancer maybe?

Anyway with the topic all i think i am suggesting we are ending our existence and seem to choose to ignore it, no matter how you look at it.

[tec0]

You can call humanity a cancer you can say we are a virus or a parasite. I say we are a power not yet realised. But that will soon change because the world is changing.

[Dave A]

However, now we talk about population control? Of all the things we have given up now we need to regulate life? Nobody has the right to tell anybody “sorry you are not allowed to procreate”.

A right shouldn't be causing harm to ourselves or others. But if you insist procreation as a right, could we at least put a limit on that "right?"

Look, breeding faster than you are being killed off is an important species survival strategy when you aren't the dominant species. Procreation at a rapid pace used to be important for us.

But we're past that stage. In fact, the biggest long term threat to the survival of mankind as a species (other than the possibility of a big piece of rock landing here at horrific speed) is the fact that we're multiplying procreating too fast. Right now we are becoming our own worst enemy - if we aren't already.

Is procreation worthy of being an absolute and unlimited right?

[murdock]

its called "GREED" something humans seem to have the least control over...thats why i believe money is the root of all evil...it is what drives a lot of people..when you have had the feel of it...it is hard to live without.

[tec0]

Well having only 1 wife would be a good start. Having only 2 children is “ok” for now. Mandatory sterilisation at age 25 is ok considering teenage pregnancies are “normal” now...

And just for “insurance purposes” allow the man and wife to store some of their genetic material “if something happens to the offspring then they can still have the option of having a third child”

But then the Government must provide excellent healthcare for free, excellent schools for free and proper monitory systems for free, because if something happens to 1 or both of your children then I feel you have the right to sue the hell out of your government because your genetic heritage died with them!

Well the upside would be “no more abortions”