strike action

[AndyD]

3 weeks unpaid is going to hurt a bit when payday comes

It will make a dent in the unions coffers especially if they're forking out the R1000 a month housing allowance for all its striking members.

[murdock]

i wonder if they still have to pay union fees if the strike longer than a month?

that could be interesting the unions sueing members for payment

[IanF]

Yes the employee can get away with a lot lately, but I have seen a lot of people getting fired for BS reasons so there is a need to have some labour protection. The truth is most companies wants slaves and most workers wants to be the boss so there is really no winning or losing here it is the state of mind that is the problem.

Well I have a feeling we have a lose lose situation and that is never beneficial

Teco
I have always viewed the employment relationship as being mutually beneficial to both parties. But with the laws in place now it has become who can twist the most benefit out of it, instead of both enjoying the rewards. Until the trust and common purpose can come back the relationship will get more toxic. What is the answer?

[desA]

What is the answer?

I will continue to import items from abroad, where the labour deals are sound. Stability of supply is important.

[Dave S]

What would happen if?...

I know this would not be possible, but what if the government paid over the increases to the union instead of the worker, then the Union would be responsible for administering these funds and ensuring their members receive the increase they have requested... sorry, demanded.

How much of the capital will then find its way into the hands of the people and how many members would the Unions loose as a result? I'm willing to bet that the increase for the striking workers would be sizeably lower than what they were originally promised. Perhaps general anarchy would reign within the Union?

Just a "sidestreet" thought...

[tec0]

Well as the strike blackmail policy continue I sometimes wonder if it is at all possible to claim back your losses as a victim of the strike.

..> You had no involvement but you had to buy your water anyway.
..> You cannot get to clients because “some arias� are just too dangerous
..> You are forced to invest in water storage systems.

Now all these things are costing you money. A water storage system can set you back R5000 easy. Not getting to your clients will cost you your contract thus no income and just basically buying drinking water is becoming a real costly exercise.

[murdock]

the reality of month end has hit...public union crowds have reduced at hospitals and else where...

now the other strikes start...nice and fresh... just been paid so they are not affected yet...lets see if they can hold out for a month.

i wonder if the union bosses are taking a 3 week salary cut in solidarity with their members and if they are reducing the monthly subs by 3 weeks...this would be an interesting answer...considering their main objective is the well being of their members...if i were a union boss i would be sitting out on the street with my members....just like i do with my staff...

i have certain rules which i adhere to in my bussiness...

1 of them is i never make any staff members do anything i wouldnt do...one example is climbing to the top of high masts to change lamps...i am kak scared of height...hanging on a safety belt 35 metres in the air with the pole swaying over a metre from side to side makes for a good laugh afterwards...or working in a roof at 50 + degrees in the middle of feb....or digging trenches...you name it...anything any member of my team has ever had to do i have also done.

the worst thing i have ever had to do is climb into a small concrete tunnel and crawl to the end then turn around and go back...just big enough for me to fit and i aint a small fella...i couldnt turn around to back...not even half way into the tunnel i started to panic...so i stopped and tried to roll onto my back but the tunnel was too small i could see snakes and bats charging me...that when things went pear shaped...i was breathing so heavily that it felt like there was no oxygen...eventually i managed to calm down crawl to the end turn around and go back...that is the only thing i would never do again and i wouldnt expect anyone else to either...i was lucky one of the guys working with me didnt have a problem crsawling thru it...

i aslo dont allow anyone on any site to treat my staff with disrespect...even the customer...if i go to site and the customer is shouting at my staff i pack up and leave the site...immediately.

everyone knows if you have a problem with my staff if i am not there...i am just a phone call away...i would sort out the problem one on one with the culprit and take action.

i wonder if these union bosses feel the same way?

[adrianh]

This strike is simply a mechanism that Cosatu uses to show the government who is really in control of the country. Zuma berated and tried to screw Vavi on a number of occasions and Vavi is having none of it. Zuma made promises to the working class (Cosatu) which he hasn't delivered on, so Vavi has Zuma by the banana. It also shows where the South African leadership battle is heading...

Quotes on Democracy...

Traditional Asian cultures, in particular that of Confucian and Islamic thought, believe that democracy results in the people's distrust and disrespect of governments or religious sanctity. The distrust and disrespect pervades to all parts of society whenever and wherever there is seniority and juniority, for example between a parent and a child, a teacher and a student.

More recently, democracy is criticised for not offering enough political stability. As governments are frequently elected on and off there tends to be frequent changes in the policies of democratic countries both domestically and internationally. Even if a political party maintains power, vociferous, headline grabbing protests and harsh criticism from the mass media are often enough to force sudden, unexpected political change. Frequent policy changes with regard to business and immigration are likely to deter investment and so hinder economic growth. For this reason, many people have put forward the idea that democracy is undesirable for a developing country in which economic growth and the reduction of poverty are top priority.

The 20th Century Italian thinkers Pareto and Mosca (independently) argued that democracy was illusory, and served only to mask the reality of elite rule. Indeed, they argued that elite oligarchy is the unbendable law of human nature, due largely to the apathy and division of the masses (as opposed to the drive, initiative and unity of the elites), and that democratic institutions would do no more than shift the exercise of power from oppression to manipulation.

Wheels within wheels...

[tec0]

It is hard to ignore the fact that this strike is basically political driven. Shutting down the petrol stations was a bad move because I think a lot of people will lose their jobs. If I am not mistaken they are asking for 20%. That is a lot of money considering that fuel is not a free market product.

This death-grip on the country will increase to a point where the economy will shutdown. Also if you look at total economic loss, the truth is they will never be able to get that amount of money back. So I think this time the unions will face the full wrath of the law on this one.

But the moment our government feels that this is a hostile political takeover by the unions we will see Martial Law and then it becomes a dangerous ballgame.

[desA]

The sky is falling...

[adrianh]

By Toutatis...

The sky is falling...

[Dave A]

From what I gather between the lines, the situation is certainly a little different from the usual merry-go-round. Apparently the last offer (7.5% + R800 housing deal) was negotiated as the acceptable settlement between the negotiating teams. Guess what - the actual members didn't buy the sell from their negotiators.

Essentially the union leaders' control of their members has slipped.

I don't know that the sky is falling in, but it could well be a significant turning point.

[adrianh]

The problem is this:

When the lot were fighting for freedom they were doing so "for all on them" i.e. Communism. Once the leaders got into place they got to like the Capatilist / Democratic system which favours their personal power. Vavi still holds onto Communist ideals which of of course means that the workers are all equal. Zuma got into power by promising the Communist members that they will be treated "fairly". Vavi has a mandate from his followers to look after them and Zuma has a mandate from his cronies to look after them. A Mexican Standoff occured because the two of them entered a personal pissing contest. By the time they both realised that they had gone too far and tried to settle the dispute between themselves, the Communist followers were set on the "group demands that were set by Vavi. The difficulty is now to stop the group from causing total Anarchy (Nobody controls them anymore, they are a law onto themselves)

An interesting fact is that our friend Mr Malema is a full blown Capatalist, he owns companies, wheels & deals just like any other Capatalist. Now what does he do: he tries to sell Socialism to the masses (The government must nationalise the mines for the good of the people - pure Socialist ideals), but, the masses do not see that when you have Capatalism at the top and Socialism or Communism at the bottom all that happens is that the Elite become filthy rich and the rest become dirt poor.

Look closely at how Democracy is practised in this country. People are afforded Democratic rights within Socialist norms - hence chaos. I personally believe that those that are truly democratically minded are in the minority and I also believe that most of them have already left. Which means the Capatalist elite and the Socialist society are to become a match made in Zimbabwe, sorry...Heaven

I refer to political idiologies and economic idiologies in this posting and not the usual stereotypes of "Die groot rooi gevaar" vs "The ideal society"

[desA]

The Chinese saviours are coming. Any day now.

[adrianh]

The Chinese saviours are coming. Any day now.

This statement may be tongue in cheek but I believe that there is a lot truth in it.

Having strong, hard leadership that doesn't take any crap is exactly what the country needs.