What is wrong with this picture

[tec0]

It is kind of difficult to stay positive at this point in time. I can say that yes South Africa is a dream come true, but then I will be part of something that is simply not true. I agree with adrianh on this one... to argue about this is really just aggravating and it almost pointless.

[adrianh]

AndyD

Your posting has been rolling around in my head the entire day. I've thought about it a lot and, being rather gobsmacked, I can only say the following:

JaWellNoFine

[AndyD]

I've been told many times to pick my battles and this is one of those times. I am not getting into this conversation because it will make me very angry.

Knock yourself out with your positive thinking and improving the country.

I'm hoping your anger isn't caused by what I said, it's just the way I feel. I wasn't spoiling for an argument or fight, it would be pointless. Arguing or debating might change opinions but it won't change anybody's feelings or emotions. I'm happy to differ with you on this one.

It is kind of difficult to stay positive at this point in time. I can say that yes South Africa is a dream come true, but then I will be part of something that is simply not true. I agree with adrianh on this one... to argue about this is really just aggravating and it almost pointless.

I don't try to stay positive as such. I'm not one of those people who lives in a state of denial or thinks everything that happens is a part of some larger pre-ordained scheme in the universe. I rather work at being proactive or reactive against problems I see.....anything but apathetic and defeatist. As long as I can see results for my efforts and I'm happy I'm not part of the problems then being positive follows on its own. I do agree that arguing about emotions is a pointless exercise.

AndyD

Your posting has been rolling around in my head the entire day.

That's a compliment indeed. Thanks.

[adrianh]

Don't take it as a compliment, its not. The reason that it has been going around in my head is because I've been reading a number of books including Predictably Irrational and Errornomics in search of the numerous ways in which human thinking is flawed.

[Dave A]

including Predictably Irrational and Errornomics in search of the numerous ways in which human thinking is flawed.

One of which is thinking of a country as "home"? Certainly that's one I've wondered about at times.

Thing is, even if I moved elsewhere as some have suggested - to places that match my paradigm of the way the world should be - South Africa is still going to be "home" to me, and I'm still going to be a foreigner in that new "home."

So which is better - to try my best to make home a better place, or move to another place and be an outsider?

[adrianh]

DaveA - you said it yourself: When is enough enough?

A jewish person growing up in Germany before the second world war also considered Germany home.

I am not bound by a place, just as I am not bound by a job not a a philosophy. You say that one will be a foreigner in that new "home" but after 43 years in this country, the mindsets are still foreign to me. I also do not see being foreign as being a problem, I am a loner and my wife and kids make friends easily.

The idea of building a better future at home is noble, but I feel like a Jewish person in Germany, no matter what you do, the big Nazi machine will do what it does because you are already a foreigner in your own country. By moving away you get to live out your life in relative harmony. Now, some would say that there is crime and violence everywhere, fair enough, but again, it is like living in Germany and saying, oh, its ok to live here, my friends dissapear, and I hear terrible stories, but its ok because there is crime and violence elsewhere.

[AndyD]

A jewish person growing up in Germany before the second world war also considered Germany home..............but I feel like a Jewish person in Germany, no matter what you do, the big Nazi machine will do what it does because you are already a foreigner in your own country.

This is a harsh and extreme analogy. You obviously feel like a victim and that you're persecuted in South Africa. I'm not sure in what way are you persecuted. You are free to come and go as you please, do as you will, say as you will and vote for your ruling party of preference. You have concrete rights as laid out in the constitution and they're enforceable by a structured albeit maybe not particularly efficient legal system.

I fully appreciate your feeling oppressed but I really can't understand without further information how you can use the Nazi analogy accurately. Surely the Nazi analogy would have been better applied to the position of indigenous peoples of this country under the apartheid governments of the past.

[adrianh]

The analogy is used in the following context: You feel that one should stay in the country because one can build a better future though the walls are crumbling around you. I feel that I should leave the country because my future is in the hands of a mentally unstable group of ignorant, uneducated, small minded, corrupt, aids ridden, vicious, murderous, bigoted morons. The facts remain the same:

1. Crime & violence is rife
2. Supposed professional people, educators & care givers, put their own needs above the needs of those that they care for.
3. And so on...

You can choose to build a better future with a bunch of people who are willing to let babies die and refuse to feed patients who are dependent on them, who refuse to allow children to get an education and to interfere with their future by delaying matric exams. Who believe that a man who has a standard 2, 5 wives and 20 children makes for a leader for young people to look up to. Who believe that the world owes them and that they can take whatever they want, from whomever they want. That is your choice.

But please, don't preach to me about "apathy" or "being unhappy within myself", when I feel that I want to move somewhere else because I am disgusted by people who murder, rape, kill, hijack, steal, refuse to feed patients, let babies die, turn injured people away from hospital, refuse to teach children, intimidate teachers who want to work, stab a nurse, shoot another nurse, pull a doctor out of theatre and then have the audacity to say that its not their fault that patients die because they probably would have died anyway.

Another thing, like murdock said, this crap doesn't affect me directly, my kids go to a good school where the teachers are predominantly young white afrikaans girls who believe that it is their responsibility to do the work that they were paid to do, I have medical aid, a good GP and I can get to a private hospital.

No my friend...

Think very closely about what Bosch & Lomb said: "We can't change the way the world looks, but we can change the way you see it"

The time has come to take the post '94 happy happy glasses off and face reality:

We, all of us, black & white, are right up sheet creek and the great unwashed burnt the paddle along with their libraries.

[Dave A]

DaveA - you said it yourself: When is enough enough?

I guess we all have different limits.

I think for me it wil be when I can't see the goodwill in my fellow citizens anymore. The thing is I still see enough good, enough frustration, enough desire for a better life in my fellow citizens (black, white, indian, christian, hindi, muslim etc.) to believe there are enough of us still to turn the tide.

And I'd rather be part of a success story and risk failing in the attempt than walk away and know I contributed to that failure.

[adrianh]

And I'd rather be part of a success story and risk failing in the attempt than walk away and know I contributed to that failure.

Interesting idea but not always wise: the employees of Enron will attest to it, so will those who continued to dance while the Titanic was sinking.

There comes a point where one has to cut your losses and quit the game. The point is that where risk exceeds reward, and to me, living in this country, the risks far exceed the rewards.

Interesting can of worms; what are the rewards for living in this country? I can't name any except the beauty of the country itself, which is good but certainly not the best in the world.

[murdock]

this is the part i dont understand is if there are more people wanting this to work and a minority of crimminals why are they controlling this country?

my staff dont work over time anymore because they say it is too dangerous to move a round in the locations at night after dark...my maid gets robbed while walking to work on the weekends so we have to go collect her from the petrol station if she works...during the week they walk in big groups otherwise their money and cellphones are taken...

my son had a person walk up to him in broad daylight and threaten him...just down the road from where i live.

these crimminals are difficult to identify because they look the the boy from next door.

[adrianh]

Who is running the country - you said that it is a minority of criminals controlling this country. Yes I agree, and that is why one is unable to distinguish between the ones at the top of the pile and the ones at the bottom of the pile. The only difference is the ones at the top of the pile drive in big black Merc's with money stolen from the tax payer, and the ones at the bottom drive in Merc's highjacked in Sandton.

The more things change the more they stay the same, even if the blue overall is changed for a Carducci tailormade suit.

[Dave A]

Interesting idea but not always wise

No contest. But I could pick some other analogies.

For example, doing the Robben Island swim. For some it's no problem, for others it would be very unwise

these crimminals are difficult to identify because they look the boy from next door.

Or as I had yesterday morning, it was the boy next door. Well almost - less than 100 metres down the road.