Our kids are in REAL trouble with education!

[tec0]

I agree with you on this. Children can be influenced and this will have an effect on their personality. I know that most mothers and fathers do their best within their boundaries “sometimes financial boundaries” but still you do get people that will harm your child be it at school or sport practice.

The truth is that your child is precious and needs your protection especially in this day and age. I sometimes feel that there is this hidden war. And within this war your child is the target. These forces seek to corrupt and destroy young lives for money. These very evil people will come in all forms, hiding behind so called “good” intentions.

My advice is “don’t trust anyone” when it comes to the wellbeing of your child.

[Debbiedle]

Oi! This is obviously quite an emotive subject. Garthu, this subject has also been the bane of my life! The tasks/projects/homework/expectations are for kids with involved and educated parents. Without education no matter how involved you are, you will be unable to help your kid. It also panders to a wealthier society where the kids have access to libraries, internet and resources. I currently help an 11 year old to wade through her grades as her mother is not educated enough to do so. I cringe to think what would happen to this child if I am not in her life. This is a simple fact.

On the other side of the coin where you have the incredibly over involved parent who researches, recommends and assists to the point of doing, (sometimes due to impatience and time constraint, but mostly due obsessive emphasis on achievement) the child also learns nothing. My own children were surrounded and heavily discriminated against at project time as their own work was measured against that of other parents, in that instance, education also loses!

Either way it is a very fine line and I am not sure that we are all sufficiently skilled to deal with it. I certainly felt out of my depth on numerous occasions.

[adrianh]

Education

If you don't spend enough time with your kids, you can't complain if they turn out like someone else.

I love this!

Debbie, I don't think that any of are "sufficiently skilled to deal with it". We simply do the best we can. I have learned more about myself and about interacting with other people (kids & adults) in the past 11 years than I did in the 33 years before having kids. I found interacting with the girls to be enlightning to say the least. At the end of the day I want to be in a position to say: "Whatever the outcome, I did the best I could" The will lead the lives they choose, and it is their right to do so.

[sgafc]

My 11 year kid got this question, in maths.

The numerator should be more than 4. The denominator is 3 times the numerator, and should be 12+. In fact,was more confusing than this...

I am sure many of you can work it out, but it took me, a professional accountant more than 20 minutes to figure it out. Yes we want our kids to think, but please teachers give homework to the kids, not the parents!

[jinxster]

If you don't spend enough time with your kids, you can't complain if they turn out like someone else.

Thats a bit egotistical... you assume you are the example everyone should be...

[daveob]

Thats a bit egotistical... you assume you are the example everyone should be...

Actually, that was the last line of my post, earlier the same day, so suppose I should intercept all flak directed at adrianh.

However, I hope if you go back and read my post with the comment in context, you'll understand the reason for the comment.

I am the example to follow ? I sure as heck hope not, for if all convert and become like me, we are surely doomed. Apart from "variety being the spice of life", I have a loooong list of faults and quirks that I wouldn't even wish on my enemies, not to mention on my kids.

But my remarks and comment stand as my beliefs, feelings and opinion - we want our kids to inherit our basic levels of manners, ethics, etc, not someone elses.

So (again) : If you don't spend enough time with your kids, you can't complain if they turn out like someone else ......

ps .... general disclaimer & suffix to quote : , that's if you want them to be remotely like yourself, and you actually don't want them to be like the other person / people that you sent them to, to spend all the rest of their time with.

crikey, this parenting stuff's getting more complicated by the day. Hope we don't have to defend the amended statement and add additional terms, conditions and clauses to opinions.

[adrianh]

...Egotistical

Thats a bit egotistical... you assume you are the example everyone should be...

I don't assume anything. I simply agree with Daveob that if you do not spend time with your kids then you can't teach them anything.

Also, the statement is general and so applies to all parents and children.

I had a horrendous childhood, mostly of my own making. The only thing I can hope to do is to help my children if they were to fall into the same traps as I did, but I can only do so if I were to spend time with them. I can't say that they won't get into drugs, fall pregnant etc, but I can sure try to teach them to prevent it and I can also sure try to help them cope if we can't prevent it.

God forbid that my girls take on my character traits. (The little one does share many of my ADD / Obsessive traits mind you...) But again, I am aware of many of my flaws and I do my level best to make the girls understand my flaws and to cope with their own issues.

[twinscythe12332]

not having any kids myself, the following statements may seem a little flawed to some of the more experienced here =P.

we can only teach our kids as much as we know. The rest we can only encourage.
a quote from Bill Engvall (you can decided whether it is apt or not) "I said 'sure sweetie, I'll help you with your maths... woah when did they start putting letters in it?'"

[tec0]

adrianh >> By now I realised that you ignore anything I say good or bad...

See I spend a lot of time with young people “especially young people that lost everything” and I do mean everything... No mom no dad nothing... However they are very strong and very hard-headed but they also latch on to any opportunity to better themselves. It is for this reason that I cannot and will not believe that children are born bad.

If anything then yes a parent must be involved, but education at schools must be adequate to the point where children can make intelligent decisions. Influence makes people good or turns them bad, it affects any person young and old, on every level of thought, and yes it is that powerful.

[garthu]

Wow, started a thread that really got a little "hot". Sorry guys! At the time of writing i was VERY agro and had allot to vent.

I think though for clarity my comments were mainly directed at a flawed education system and not so much parenting. To judge any parent is very difficult, no matter how they choose to raise there kids (for the sake of this i am referring to parents that don't abuse there kids etc that can be judged) As Peter pointed out, what about the parents that work uncomprehendable hours, there are millions out there, but they do it to put there kids through school. They may not be able to spend a minute with there kids, BUT they do everything possible to ensure an education that they may not have received and realise the importance of. A damn fine parent in my books!

The only thing that has come from this thread is simply that you cannot abdicate your responsibility as a parent to the teacher or the TV.

I dont think at any point i was trying to abdicate my duties as parent! I don't think anyone else was either. What i was venting against is i do not want to spend time doing homework!! AdrianH, if you do, then 100%, buts it not for me and some others - i don't think it makes anyone a bad parent, To me that is what the school is paid for!! Further to this, another example came out of how an accountant found a question challenging!! The school has a method of teaching children, i believe we throw confusion into the matter when are left to teach our kids how we would do it, probably substantially different to the school method creating potential confusion. So many times my kids have come home with work that they have not been taught, un-yet they are expected to do at home. This is the education system that passes the buck to us and making it our responsibility. I am not a trained teacher and why then does the education system expect us to be! You would not be allowed to do your own COC, diagnose your own sickness and get prescription, repair your own car, the law in many places will STOP you as you are not qualified - how can the education system expect us to be educators. (they wouldn't employ me as one to teach other kids, but i should teach my own)

I spend an incredible amount of time with my kids! Probably more than most can say they do here (and by NO means a judgment), just in the lucky position of working from home. They come with me on jobs, i teach them things schools don't, how to fix a light, a plug, weld, take an engine to pieces, what a bond is, a loan, why we pay back money about banks, how to walk in the bush etc etc.... that's what i want to do, not teach maths!!

The system is hugely flawed, its showing in the statistics of the country and word from educators is it is going to get worse. Thats what i believe and see!

[daveob]

I am not a trained teacher and why then does the education system expect us to be! You would not be allowed to do your own COC, diagnose your own sickness and get prescription, repair your own car, the law in many places will STOP you as you are not qualified - how can the education system expect us to be educators. (they wouldn't employ me as one to teach other kids, but i should teach my own)

This is a very powerful statement and I am sure that a completely different thread could be started on this one !!

Yes, I agree with your statement about creating confusion with teaching methods. But I think we also have to understand the plight of the teachers, short staffing of well trained teachers, many more kids in a class than in our day, a 'bit more' in the books than in our school day, overworked, underpaid, seriously unappreciated, abused by the system, verbally and mentally abused by kids, etc, etc, etc.

I'm not saying all teachers or teaching conditions are like this, but I can only imagine how many of they really, really, really look forward to going to work every morning. And it is not all their fault - they are just part of the system.

But back to the 'confusion' problem. I wonder what the school would say if, as a concerned parent, you asked to sit in on 1 or 2 days lessons with your child, just to see what and how things are being taught. Surely this would be of immense benefit to the child, being able to go home and have mom / dad using the same methods that they are used to in school. My oldest is only 4 years only now, but I can tell you that routine, continuity, and repetition are the best things for kids. Knowing where they stand, what the ground rules are, and exactly what's allowed and what isn't, is in my opinion, the foundation to a happy and well settled child.

As an example, we were sitting back thinking that the pre-primary he attends were doing a great job with the things he should be mastering. Simple things like colouring repetition, cutting, etc. Well we were ( all parents ) invited to a workshop evening by the teacher ( who gave up her own time for this workshop ). Only then did we find out that the time allocated for learning and practicing tasks, about 40 minutes, was spent as follows :
getting kids (18 x 4 yr olds ) to settle down - 8 to 10 minutes.
breaks for "I need to wee" : 5 minutes.
settle down after wee time : 5 minutes.
Now you do the math and see how much "one on one" time each of the 18 kids get during the 'lesson'. About 1 minute each.

And that's just pre-primary. Imagine when they get to Big School and there's 30 kids in a class and lessons are only 30 minutes each !

Fortunately we were delighted to learn all this and have, in the last 2 weeks, been spending about 45 minutes each afternoon doing tasks at home. The teacher is keeping us updated with the latest tasks they do, copies of the dotted shapes to draw, etc, so we're all "on the same page".

I can tell you I have a wall in my office that is testament to the extra effort put in so far, and our kids seem to be enjoying the extra attention of having mom or dad sitting with them for the fun activity.

[garthu]

Yup, Daveob big topic potential here!!

Another just for the record, not really attacking the teachers, but the system. Sure there are teachers that could do with the boot, but same as any other industry. Its the system... I think its design is formulated by people that dont have kids or lives!!! (OK thats just a dig)

Actually feel for many teachers as the system is given to them, not really any choice......

[adrianh]

Fair enough, the system is flawed and the education that your kid receives at school is crap - the question is: What do you do about it?

Do you wait till they fix it (which they probably never will), or do you get involved yourself?

Getting involved yourself doesn't necessarily mean teaching the child yourself, it might mean finding a better school, getting a tutor, home schooling, etc.

[macygray]

Thats a bit egotistical... you assume you are the example everyone should be...

I dont fully agree with you on this one jinxster, lets assume the guy is a great parent, so why wuldnt he want his kid to grow up in his example? It does not mean that the kid would turn out an exact copy of his parents, just have the right guidelines to be a great adult!

[murdock]

i never did homework after school...got cained every single day...managed to pass every year with out failing...and my parents couldnt help me with homework...my mother never even had an education and my father left for work everyday at 4 am and arrived home at 7 pm...he had a long way to walk...we didnt own a car...we all walked.

with 5 kids in the house and my mother never worked it was difficult...i started working in std 5...up at 4 when my dad left for work delivered newspapers till 6.30 walking my paper round...after school i walked home...collected my papers and delivered until 5pm...when i got home all the kids had house chores to do until my dad got home...then we ate dinner... after dinner we washed the dishes and went to bed...then at 4 am and off i went again...there was no time to do homework.

finished school as soon as i turned 16...

hated my father for not giving me bicycles and expensive toys for christmas like all the other parents...but since i have grown up and understand why not...i respect my father and as i mentioned to someone the other day...when i grow up i want to be like my dad...he is the most unselfish kind hearted person...who worked hard to make sure there was food on the table and someone to take care of us...what more can you ask for?

i just laugh when my 20 year old tells me how tough life has been for him and dont understand what it is like growing up in this day and age...he was sent to one of the best boarding school money could buy...had an opitunity to go places in life with a good eduction....all we achieved was a lost bond between father and son...i sometimes wonder if it would not have been better having him grow up at home and spent a lot more time doing things together.

my point is maybe that personal bond between father and son or children and parents is all they need...the best advice i can give anyone bringing up children is sit down at the dinner table every single morning and evening and communicate with the children...when it comes to homework...i think i will still leave that to my wife...in fact our goal is to make sure by the time the little one goes to school...she will have a half day job so she can assisit with homework and projects etc...she is a master at projects...doing them for the bosses children all the time.

just my opinion...coming from an uneducated old fool who doesnt believe in homework and has learnt the hard way by making lots of mistakes

managed to pass NTC1-4
installation rules...first time
master installation rules...passed first time 1 of only 3 out of 47

not very impressive...but hey i work hard and will have to for the rest of my life...due to my lack of a good eduction.

and all without doing homework...

i believe you have to listen in class...ask questions if you dont understand and keep asking until you do understand you should be okay

i am hoping to further my studies and get a higher education who knows i might even become an engineer one day...but i think as you go higher you need to put more effort into your studies...ie do some homework