Banks.

[tec0]

Are banks really your best friend? When it comes to property we all know it is expensive and basically impossible to own because you don’t have the cash. These days the same can be said about cars but I am not going into that just yet.

Here is my problem, when a bank gives you a home loan there investment will grow and basically double their money. Now have a good look at your investments at the bank it doesn’t double and you pay tax on your investment so you lose.

The question now is why is property so expensive? I cannot answer that question just yet but take in consideration that all property “developments, sale, resale and anything to do with property gets processed by the banks thus property gets expensive because there is only one real benefactor “the bank”

Sadly the same is true with cars. Especially cars that is still relativity new. One car a simple R56000 car can have up to 4 owners but in the end of its life the bank would have owned it at least 4 times. So again the bank is the only benefactor.

My question is when it comes to owning property, is it possible to keep the bank out of the loop? The answer is no... “I stand to be corrected on this” but as I see it the bank is part of everything you do and anything you do at the bank cost you money so basically the bank cannot lose. Only we can lose... why is that? “Now before you give me the “that is how it is” lecture” think about this, if every South African gives the bank R1 everyday of our lives how can there be a recession?

The money is there but we are not benefitting from it.

[sgafc]

Excellent post TEC0! This forum is full of people who are suspicious about banks, and they have all the right to be... Banks are at the centre of the worlds financial problems. True, we cannot always blame banks and it is time we take responsibility for our own finances. Its at the "taking responsibility" level where I am ridiculed for being "paranoid".

But lets face it. Banks are actually behind inflation. The constant increase in bank charges/ costs(not only interest), forces businesses to find the money elsewhere(price increases).

And you right, banks are manipulating the property market, making it next to impossible for newly wed couples, to find a home.They profit greatly out of the housing market(and other types of financing).

The charges extracted from the populace and business, borders on the immoral. Take your bond, vehicle repayments+ interest+ admin fees+ charges plus bank charges on business and personal accounts, credit cards etc,and the 400% increases, then it becomes clear to all and sundry, that we actually slaves to the banks!

And money is in abundance, just not equally spread. 90% of the world wealth in the hands of 1% of the population, and 10% in the rest!

[twinscythe12332]

far from the original "hey, could you keep this for me please" that originally happened with blacksmiths, that's for sure.

[Dave A]

Great topic! Banks seem to be an unavoidable service nowadays.

Interest charges (or discounts for those banks who don't use the interest model) is probably unavoidable as there needs to be some return for the people putting up the money. But supply and demand does a reasonable job of establishing that balance...

True, we cannot always blame banks and it is time we take responsibility for our own finances. Its at the "taking responsibility" level where I am ridiculed for being "paranoid".

Don't let that stop you, Sean. It's the only way I can see to shift the numbers.

Like Sean, I feel the abuse factor is in the charges. The introduction of an admin fee on credit agreements was pure opportunism (thank you government for opening that door with the NCA - as if the banks weren't creative enough with their fees already ).

Perhaps the real problem when it comes to padded charges is not enough competition?

[Marq]

Bank = Necessary evil.

Besides BS charges and run around, heres another scenario - your personal data.

Every time I have phoned any bank where I have an account they ask 20 questions and do the run around to verify who you are. Now this week Standard bank 'froze' my business credit cards as they tell me there was a transaction that was not 'authorised'. The 'authorisation' is in the form of a call to my cell phone to see if its me that using the card. Eventually I discover that one of the digits on the cell number they have is incorrect and they therefore did not verify the transaction. They did not bother to follow up and just left the situation hanging, waiting for a pissed off customer to phone in and query what is going on. Subsequently, after three calls to the bank this morning, I discover that my landline number is also incorrect as is my postal address.

Their solution is for me to go into the bank and sort this out. My details have been the same for the past 10 years - they manage to send me a statement every month and I have called them and had to verify data many times.

How is it that Standard Bank after 10 years of being with them, suddenly have 'incorrect' data on their system?
How is it that this became my fault and my job to fix it?
How is that Standard Bank 'team leaders'/BS artists do not have an answer for this?
How is that these people believe that another phone call and endless questions on who you are and whether you farted this morning can give you a warm feeling that all is ok now?

Nedbank want to know even more information about you, your wife and kids on a blatant marketing update every time you call them, where they use fica as an excuse. Nedbank sells your to insurance companies and who knows who else for spam purposes; absa gave away confidential information to whoever asks; now standard bank has a dodgy database.

It should be us verifying our banks and their credentials everytime we speak to them - not the other way round.

[tec0]

Yes. This is a true scenario and a really big problem. Not too long ago I had to supply the bank with “prove of residence” However the one morning I had real trouble with my bank-account. They are clearly “understaffed” and all that. But, if you want to start trouble just ask the person that is helping you to verify their certification so that “YOU” the customer knows that the person that is helping you is indeed certified. “The stories you get is beyond belief!”

Secondly I find that some banks “That I will not name” have real trouble with people that wants to do banking in their own language. Now the language thing is to avoid misinformation and misunderstandings to name but a few reasons. The sad thing is “YOU” are the customer but it doesn’t feel like it. You are treated like a criminal and you never have a good experience! EVER!

Lastly about your phone numbers that is not correct. The bank IS able to see when that information was modified and by whom! Make no mistake the system is designed that way and if they cannot provide you with that information then you will probably have real trouble in the future.

My advice is “take control” and give your bank HELL if there is something wrong.

[tec0]

I am not going to pretend that I understand the inner most sinister workings of a bank but I really do not understand inflation. And I cannot understand why inflation exists. All I do know is our buying power is really not that strong and since 1989 upwards our buying power diminished to what it is today. A R100 can buy you a pizza.

Now, my novice understanding of inflation is that it weakens our buying power thus we need to spend more money on the same products. If we used currency like gold or silver inflation cannot really exist because it is connected to the scarcity of gold and silver. So I ask you, what contributing factor allowed inflation to exist in the first place.

Still before one points at the banks and there mechanics, note that ALL currency is the banks property to start with. So if the money is in the bank and it is the banks property it is stronger by default, because the bank urns larger amounts on their investments then what we can.

The second scenario is the money itself and this bit I really, really don’t get. Inflation eats away at our buying power so we need more “physical money” and because there is more physical money its value will go down thus we end up in a losing battle.

Now if we look at the pointers:

A> Inflation (why does it exist)
B> Home loans (Never structured in our best interest)
C> Personal Investments (Never earning as much as the bank does)

Why do we need this system? I answer we need the security and ability to borrow money because it is impossible to own property otherwise. Knowing that the banks are behind the property mark-up they basically created the need for home-loans to start with so that they can profit from us??? Nice.

[twinscythe12332]

A> Inflation (why does it exist)

how else are they going to keep their funds flowing? When new money flows into the system, it isn't distributed amongst the people... it goes to the banks. This is the bank's power.

B> Home loans (Never structured in our best interest)

When is anything structured in our best interest?

C> Personal Investments (Never earning as much as the bank does)

at the end of the day, where do you think the money for those personal investments is ending? You guessed it, in a bank.

[Frankincense]

This should be censored - for banks sake.

I work in one....please note....although Dave may not agree, and multitudes for sanity purposes should join him...one can talk about the fees, personal accountability for financial management, neccessary evils, part of life, not what it used to be, taking your own responsability (btw - it's you who's being taken ) ...blah blah blah.....

The bottom line is....there is a little book that talks about no "buying and selling without a mark" .....666....and when you start to investigate the trends in both banking and technology and thier inseperability...you will see what I see....given the prevailant attitude and habits of these institutions...

These are the Gods that control humanity and pay everyone else off to fullfill thiers needs. Governments...Media...Sports Sponsors...you name it...

I know, I know.....here I go again....

By all means...carry on talking about banks with possibly other "noble" ideas...but you will more frequently hear about all system tracking and ease of transaction through electro chips..already on some master visa cards....it's gonna be force fed to you.....after the consent period is over....1st FICA, 2cnd RICA, 3rd EUREKA...game over!


What I love about prophecy is that no one can change it...they may scoff at it, and find ways to deal with it...but WHAT MUST BE MUST BE!

@TecO :"I am not going to pretend that I understand the inner most sinister workings of a bank but I really do not understand inflation. And I cannot understand why inflation exists."

It exists because banks may create money outta thin air. All I need is to retain 10% (in SA it's Basil I & II Capital Reserves what what)...and then the party starts


Here goes...all aboard???........I recieve R100 as deposit...I must keep 10% = R10 then I may now borrow to someone else R90...who in turn pops that R90 into their savings account with my bank again...now I have R100 + the R90 I borrowed as I fullfiled my BASIL requirement to keep 10% reserve.....so what was R100 has already become R1o0 initial deposit + R10 reserve + R90 redeposited which I am allowed to create outta nothing...

That is inflation 101 explained in simplistic terms...I make money outta nothin...and no one except God Himself will destroy this.....all becuase it's designed like this...oh...the R90 you reinvested with me...I'm gonna keep R9 and borrow the other...R81...and so on, and so on...

...now work out if a couple of people invest a couple of million in the bank???

What you get is a hyperinflation controlled by money supply and a dash of fictitious calculated "reccessions" to create an idea,"things are bad".....it's PARTY TIME...AND IT'S becuase the ultimate objective is for 666...NOTHING ELSE....

Go ahead, study the increase in money supply over decades.., and that decreases it's value....that's why 10 years ago a bread cost R2 now it's R12...not because bread became more valueable, but because banks are allwoed to have a party in earth....and make a shit load a cash...from nothing....

Eish....I'm sorry...

Sleep well folks....



TETRAGRAMMATON RULES!!!!

[Dave A]

That puts the "security" of a ten percent reserve in a different light. At first blush that 10% would seem closer to 1% in reality. We're not missing something here? A consequence of the diminishing numbers in that sequence...

Go ahead, study the increase in money supply over decades.., and that decreases it's value....that's why 10 years ago a bread cost R2 now it's R12...not because bread became more valueable, but because banks are allwoed to have a party in earth....and make a shit load a cash...from nothing....

Actually they make the money out of the margin between what they pay out and what they reap in just like any other business. It's just their commodity is predominantly other people's money.

Your point on inflation jogged another morsel or two lodged in my mind.

When did inflation start? And what triggered it?
I always thought it was the climb in the price of oil around 1970 that started the inflation monster - but given your point (the fact that inflation requires an oversupply of money), is that right? Was it really oil or was it, in fact, a change in money supply policy?

And then a thought related to Illuminati matters - the bond investor has one major enemy - inflation. Probably worth chewing on when considering what might be driving it all.

[tec0]

So basically when I apply for a home loan all my finances are being looked at and scrutinised, all my assets is then translated as “financial stability” so if I can’t pay I stand to lose it all. But the bank puts nothing up. Basically they just pay the current owner with thin air! Because the “money” was created when I applied for the loan!

I am stupefied really... So when we work on low risk the banks work on no risk and they take money from us in the form of bank charges and interests on our loans not to mention inflation that is all basically created by them?

This can’t be... can it? When I look at my living cost it is said you lose 40 cents of every R1 on tax and its many faces. But now thanks to Eskom we are looking to lose even more because the actual COST will increase by a possible 43% So basically I as a person only urn about 20 cents of every R1 but the bank only have to keep 10% of my 20 cents as physical collateral thus I actually have less than that then comes all the charges and everything else. No wonder we are in a bloody recession! The system is self-defeating thus impossible to keep what you have!

Now if this system is indeed “designed” to work that way then what the hell are we using banks for? Will it not be better to translate your wealth into something more physical like gold coins or even certified diamonds? But even then you stand to lose...

Slaves to the system just got a new meaning in my books. Or I am missing a few details...

[sgafc]

40% Tax on Every Rand. Business is Best

Thats why its better to be self employed. "You Earn Money Before You Pay Tax" An employee pays tax before they EARN it."

Self employed people also have substantial room to play around with to claim Vat back, and reduce taxes. Not for the employed person(no matter how much they earn)

But all of us remain victims of a wicked banking system...

[Frankincense]

"Actually they make the money out of the margin between what they pay out and what they reap in just like any other business. It's just their commodity is predominantly other people's money. "

No......we take a little of others money, and may turn it into much more by borrowing it out and recieving it back again (FRACTIONAL RESERVE LENDING)...Basil I & II

This is not an ethical business, nor is there anything "normal" about it. Yes banks have outflows, but fractional reserve creation of funds really does cover the expences...lol..... [see inflation 101 in post #9 ]

Indeed Sgafc:"... all of us remain victims of a wicked banking system..."

[sgafc]

What is inflation? Economics 1, defines it as too much money chasing too little goods and services....really?

I would say Too, many goods and services chasing money(that the banksters first created out of nothing, and sucked out of the system), now there is not enough money to pay for the goods and services.

I recall in the various "drought periods", 1984, 1991 and 1997, how the supermarkets were packed to capacity, and overflowing, with vegetables and fruit. I see business people every day, with an abundance of services and goods to sell, but there is NO market(read money) for their goods and services.
Whether you agree with me or not...something doesnt add up???

[tec0]

True, more shops are closing because of “lack of business” and not just “bad service” as some may think. When one look at South Africa you will find that we are unique because jobs are controlled by industry and heavy industry. Commercial profits are based on industrial profits. The more work there is the more money there is... “That kind of scenario”.

Now big companies don’t improve the lives of the general population thus we see a picture of labour abuse, and few “training opportunities” and I will not even mention the politics that is involved. How can we reach financial stability if there is no planning for development? Fact is in trying times the tax could have been more “lenient” and more importantly the banks could have been more “responsible” when it comes to “repossessing” things like cars, houses and that kind of thing.

How can you possibly stand a chance to pay the bank back if they take your transport and basically by doing that you lose your ability to work and earn money...? Now I know you get lot people that want to take chances and take what they can get. But making everyone guilty by association is not helping the economy or the clients that IS actually trying to pay the bank its money...

Banks must realise that “job security” is a thing of the past...