Charlie Hebdo killings in France and "FREE SPEECH"

[flaker]

"The name itself is a great example of how Charlie Hebdo has had to defend its radical free speech ideals against censorship: the magazine was initially called Hara-Kiri, but after publishing a joke about president de Gaulle's then-recent death in 1970, it was permanently banned from sales by France's minister of the interior. The magazine changed its name to Charlie Hebdo to escape the ban. "


This magazine previously banned in France? can anyone verify the authenticity of the statement?

[CLIVE-TRIANGLE]

That's true. There had, just prior to de Gaulle's death, been a fire at a ball or dance that resulted in the death of more than a 100 people. Main stream media chose to ignore it and published only the de Gaulle issue. Hara-Kiri published an article that did the opposite; the article revealed society's tendency to give more weight to a single well-known death, rather than over a hundred ordinary people's death. The permanent banning followed a string of temporary one in the 60's.

One of the contributors claimed that "Charlie" Hebdo was a reference to de Gaulle, while the others (seemingly to divert further attention) claimed it was a reference to Schultz's Charlie Brown (Schultz himself was Charles). The name thing wasn't instant, and was certainly not the first time that they did so. As far as I know, this is the cover of the first Hebdo Hara-Kiri. I guess the Charlie bit came directly after.

http://www.danmazurcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/hara-kiri-hebdo-cover-oct5-70-Reiser1.jpg

This was in 1970 when the winds of change of the 60's were blowing fierce, and poking a finger in establishment's eye was a risky (but popular) pastime. Of course the world has moved on and civilized nations accept parody and satire as just another check point.

de Gaulle at the time was regarded by the French much as SA regards Madiba.

Whatever, the banning can't ever be compared to murder?

[adrianh]

Look at it from a different perspective: if a group of people continually goad another group who are prone to violence then they have to take part responsibility for the consequences. I am not saying that the killings were justified, hell no, but if you continue to taunt people then you shouldn't be surprised when they react.

[pmbguy]

Imagine if Voltaire was alive today, holy shit, his writings about the profit and Islam would have got him dead faster than JZ eats a KFC family feast.

[flaker]

Thanks Clive. just a minor point. All nations are today civilised.The Arabs are not tolerant when their prophet or religion is negatively portrayed again & again, and it is not them that take the fight directly to the doors of the magazine.Its this radical fringe which today is killing Muslims even today in Yemen. The vast majority of Muslims all over the world condemn such deeds and the world is beginning to understand this

I think if somebody wants to mess around , do it to North Korea's Tim Jong. the worst that happens is that your internet is hacked

[pmbguy]

I have many Muslim clients and although most of them condemn some of the methods like suicide bombings they support the war against the West... so fringe fanatic or not, they all want their lands free of the infidels and they want the West to burn.


Voltaire analysed Islam without being held back by modern political correctness... his work on the matter feels as if it was written yesterday.

[adrianh]

Free speech is an illusion that people use to defend their own stupidity. How long will a pro-Nazi magazine last in Israel?

The one thing that people continually overlook is that those cartoonists continually pulled the tigers tail....and now everybody condemns the tiger for biting their hands. They knew perfectly well that they were looking for $h1t.

As I said before, I don't condone the actions of the militants but those cartoonists did exactly what the Isreali's did, and are still doing to the Palistinians, by continually taunting them and then claiming themselves to be the victims when they get a response.

[Dave A]

Look at it from a different perspective: if a group of people continually goad another group who are prone to violence then they have to take part responsibility for the consequences. I am not saying that the killings were justified, hell no, but if you continue to taunt people then you shouldn't be surprised when they react.

So what you're saying is it pays to be prone to violence.

[adrianh]

Of course not, but if you poke a monkey with a stick enough times it will attack you!

[Justloadit]

So if you don't poke the monkey to show every one there idiotic ideals then it is better?
Keeping quite allows the wrong people into power, hitler, bob, jm, jz, etc.......

[adrianh]

We are free to poke whomever we like, one simply needs to remember that every action has consequences. Like throwing a cigarette butt into a veld, a small action may have huge consequences. If you have a schizophrenic child living in your house and you poke him with a stick all day long then something bad is bound to happen....so once the child kills all the kids at school then we get to claim that it was the child's fault because the child was "bad"

You see, the point is simply that they did not consider the consequences of their actions even though they were warned on numerous occasions....and of course those fools who shot them also did not consider the consequences of their actions because they've unleashed a $h1tstorm of religious hatred. At the end of the day both sides are wrong!

[pmbguy]

I think they knew full well that their lives were under threat and decided that their message was more important than their lives. They were martyrs for a cause and the people who killed them were martyrs for their cause... which cause do you think is more just?

[adrianh]

Neither, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist so judgement can only be made from a particular side of the fence.

[pmbguy]

Surely people like this cannot be classified as terrorists in any definition of the term. Then when I consider that their cause was freedom of speech I have to put my hat in their corner. Jeez Adrian for a member of the Church of the Spaghetti Monster (CSM) I thought you would hail them as honorary members of your cause... surely spaghetti law and doctrine advocates science and truth which necessitates freedom of speech.

Even if you judge them as fools for risking their lives then surely they are at worst useful fools.

[flaker]

this has been playing in my mind all day.

On the one side we have a graduate school of okes some owning and others working in running a magazine that pokes fun at at all sorts, politics,actors, famous people and RELIGION (be it Christianity,Islam,Hinduism,& every other.) But religion!! why? ,there are a set of persons that have their particular set of believes and obedience to their Lord . Why denigrate, why poke fun at these beliefs. There has to be a line drawn somewhere for this "freedom of expression".

Now on the other side we have these four folks, 2 brothers one of whom is a failed rapper.The 3rd & 4th is a career criminal and his girlfriend. 2 of them have spent time in french prisons. Young, marginalised,vulnerable. Easy prey for Yemenis' Al Qaeda

we now have had this million man march. Tomorrow it would be forgotten

it would be forgotten in the same manner as the 15 that died in Yemen recently when an USA drone missed its target & blew out a convoy of wedding procession. All lost & forgotten

Let us learn to respect all religions. Let us be tolerant of all religions and then we would have learnt "what freedom of expression" truly is