Driving Each Other Crazy...

[Dave S]

Generally this would be a topic to steer clear of (pardon the pun), but we South Africans have a deteriorating reputation for our bad driving. One cannot help but notice the launch of a new "competition" by one of the leading insurance companies, whereby they (the relative company) seems to think that a simple cell-phone app. can distinguish a good driver from a bad one? We are being fed the notion that speed is the criteria that distinguishes good from bad, however this is rarely the case.

I personally have achieved 4 competition licenses (3 event and 1 season) and hold dual advanced licenses (skidpan control and urban chaos). I make more than my fair-share of mistakes on the road like any other driver, I have been involved in 4 accidents, one of which was my fault. As you can see, I'm just your average Joe when it comes to driving, but some things boggle the brain. Let's start with a million-dollar question...

What, in your opinion, is the safest speed that one can travel, on any road in any country?

To be continued...

[vieome]

I think the problem is not so much speed though it does count. But a larger problem is that no one keeps a fair and reasonable breaking distance .

[pmbguy]

Safety is relative to the risk-reward factor, but technically the safest you could travel is slow...like 30 or so whilst you slowly safely navigate around any potential objects on the road. An individual’s risk-reward determines "safe" driving speed to a degree, but Competition is the big driving factor behind why we all just don't drive at 30kh. We are rewarded with time, economic gain, survival etc by driving faster. Our laws are not far from what we as societies conceive of as "safe" given the risk reward factor.
In specific situations, like high-jackings, it’s prudent to go fukkinfast because your safety requires it. Practicing techniques to drive better and fast ect makes you much more affective to deal with the situation if it does occur and its fun.

To answer the question: Safest speed is Technically: 30kh (no risk-reward and competition factored, everybody drives 30)

With risk-reward and competition, under good conditions, I say 65 in town, 120 on normal roads and 140 on the highways.

[pmbguy]

I think the problem is not so much speed though it does count. But a larger problem is that no one keeps a fair and reasonable breaking distance .

I agree

You need that space to react, it seems many people in SA have a problem understanding this

[Dave S]

I think the problem is not so much speed though it does count. But a larger problem is that no one keeps a fair and reasonable breaking distance .

Yep, this is indeed one of our biggest problems, we all seem to think we are superhuman with reaction times to match. The bigger problem with following distances is when someone changes lanes in front of you, they are taking away your safe distance and you now have to correct it again, it can be a big hazard on a highway at high speed.

[Dave S]

Safety is relative to the risk-reward factor, but technically the safest you could travel is slow...like 30 or so whilst you slowly safely navigate around any potential objects on the road. An individual’s risk-reward determines "safe" driving speed to a degree, but Competition is the big driving factor behind why we all just don't drive at 30kh. We are rewarded with time, economic gain, survival etc by driving faster. Our laws are not far from what we as societies conceive of as "safe" given the risk reward factor.
In specific situations, like high-jackings, it’s prudent to go fukkinfast because your safety requires it. Practicing techniques to drive better and fast ect makes you much more affective to deal with the situation if it does occur and its fun.

To answer the question: Safest speed is Technically: 30kh (no risk-reward and competition factored, everybody drives 30)

With risk-reward and competition, under good conditions, I say 65 in town, 120 on normal roads and 140 on the highways.

Interesting reply, but what if all other cars are at 40Kph? if you are at 30Kph would you not be a hazard to other motorists? I tend to think that if I am on a highway and all cars are flying past me, then I am putting myself and others at risk, so the safest speed I can achieve would be to match the speed of the vehicles around me? It may not always be legal, if all ather cars are at 140Kph and I want to do 120Kph because it is legal, I am still posing a hazard to myself and others? The same rule applies on just about any other road. There would, of course, be some circumstances where matching speed of others could be a problem.

But speed is only a small portion of driving in general and there are far more hazardous practices on our roads. Speed is rarely responsible for causing an accident, but speed will aggravate the circumstances of every accident.

[adrianh]

Interesting reply, but what if all other cars are at 40Kph? if you are at 30Kph would you not be a hazard to other motorists? I tend to think that if I am on a highway and all cars are flying past me, then I am putting myself and others at risk, so the safest speed I can achieve would be to match the speed of the vehicles around me? It may not always be legal, if all ather cars are at 140Kph and I want to do 120Kph because it is legal, I am still posing a hazard to myself and others? The same rule applies on just about any other road. There would, of course, be some circumstances where matching speed of others could be a problem.

But speed is only a small portion of driving in general and there are far more hazardous practices on our roads. Speed is rarely responsible for causing an accident, but speed will aggravate the circumstances of every accident.

Well put. Where speed is concerned the biggest problem is inappropriate speed for given conditions. Like people who try to get onto a highway at a low speed, I always get on at a speed which is a bit higher that the general speed on the highway (whatever that speed might be) so that when I merge I am able to drive my way into the lane without upsetting the flow of traffic. The person who drives at a very low speed or very high speed compared to the rest of the traffic. Of course if it is too low then people get frustrated trying to pass and if it is too high the driver tends to weave in and out of lanes. High speed within built up areas are problematic because people misjudge distances. A pedestrian may walk across a road with the assumption that the oncoming car is travelling at 60 and will take a certain time before the car reaches him. The pedestrian may be perfectly right in his projected time...if the oncoming car wasn't travelling at 100 kmh.

I find that one of the biggest problems on the road is situational awareness. People are not aware of their surroundings and do not plan for possible problems. You have continually think about things that might happen and your escape routes. The trick is to just to think "what if". People tend to assume that the other guy is going to do exactly what you expect...what do you do if they change their minds. Here is a case in point, when I pick the staff up in the morning I make a U-turn at a particular intersection. its one of those roads where many people are forced to do the U-turn due to the fact that the double road blocks an entrance. Ok, so most of the time the people behind me don't get freaked out because they are far enough behind that if something were to happen
to me they would be able to stop. Then there are the ones who sit right on my tail and get the fright of their lives when I do a U-turn. The problem is that they expect me do something and that expectation gets them into trouble. The best is to assume that everybody else on the road may do anything at anytime and that you should be mindful of what you would do if it were to happen.

I must also add that I think a huge problem is our own sort of "F*ck you, I do what I want" attitude. We don't care about obeying traffic laws because they are not enforced (unless you consider extorting money using remote cameras as enforcement) Our driving style and aggression is a function of society in general rather that driving as such. Our attitudes and anger is amplified because we feel that we are sitting inside our own private tanks and as such are able to get away with a lot more than when we are face to face. I bet that very few people would give another person a zap sign in his face n a shopping centre, why not, well because we know that if were to do so we would get a fat smack right there and then. But in our cars we feel invulnerable, we do as we please because we know that we will probably get away with it. I think that if everybody rode scooters the anger levels would drop because people would know that a fat slap is can be dished out in an instant!

[vieome]

Another thing to add, people are now buying their drivers licenses, and hitting the roads without the necessary driver skills.

Instead of having Bill Boards on Motorways, they should have accident damaged cars mounted so people are reminded of the dangers.

[pmbguy]

Interesting reply, but what if all other cars are at 40Kph? if you are at 30Kph would you not be a hazard to other motorists? .

I call it a Technical safe speed if everybody drives at that speed (30km), here I excluded risk-reward and competition which does not allow this state to occur naturally. Its a theoretical safest speed.

Obviously driving at 30 on the N3 will get you killed


I am alluding to the relativity of safety when determining what is a safe speed, given how inherently dangerous driving is

[adrianh]

Another thing to add, people are now buying their drivers licenses, and hitting the roads without the necessary driver skills.

Instead of having Bill Boards on Motorways, they should have accident damaged cars mounted so people are reminded of the dangers.

I really don't think that the majority of accidents are caused by those people. I think that they are caused by arrogant d00$e$ who know how to drive but don't have much regard for anybody else due to their aggressive "F*ck you I do what I want attitude"

[Mike C]

I have had my licence for a long time now and I seem to remember that one of the major rules of the road after "keep left" was "be courteous". I don't think that is in the handbook any longer.

[Dave A]

I remember an employee who boasted he was the best driver in the company. He reckoned he had the fastest take-off technique at traffic lights, best handling skills when cornering at high speed, and best braking techniques when it came to stopping rapidly, especially in adverse weather conditions.

He also had a pretty dim view of the driving skills of another employee in particular, who pretty much plodded his way around during the day.

Kinda burst his bubble a bit when I pointed out the vastly different accident stats between him and the plodder.
Guess which one had a pretty impressive tally of accidents, including a total write-off, minor fender benders, bumps and scrapes, and which employee had none?

Number of kilometres per accident is probably the best indicator you can get, and with some exceptions, that'll include ones that "weren't your fault."

I had one who kept getting hit from behind. Applying general principle, the fault was with the driver behind for failing to keep a safe following distance. But having to brake aggressively at the last moment because you had failed to anticipate events unfolding before you on a regular basis certainly doesn't help improve your odds of being smacked from behind any.

[Blurock]

Like people who try to get onto a highway at a low speed, I always get on at a speed which is a bit higher that the general speed on the highway (whatever that speed might be) so that when I merge I am able to drive my way into the lane without upsetting the flow of traffic.

Worst are the people who actually STOP at an off ramp. I've had a few near misses due to observing and trying to anticipate the flow of the traffic on the freeway. Next moment this dooos in front of me slams on the brakes instead of merging into the traffic. Then you also have those morons who will not allow someone to merge from the left, but actually speed up to cut off the car entering from the offramp.

The person who drives at a very low speed or very high speed compared to the rest of the traffic. Of course if it is too low then people get frustrated trying to pass and if it is too high the driver tends to weave in and out of lanes. High speed within built up areas are problematic because people misjudge distances.

And the slow driver will sit in the middle lane and just wave people past on both sides of him/her. In KZN there are no "keep left, pass right" signs. The traffic authorities here have never seen the book as we all buy our licences at the local driving school...

I find that one of the biggest problems on the road is situational awareness. People are not aware of their surroundings and do not plan for possible problems. You have continually think about things that might happen and your escape routes. The trick is to just to think "what if". People tend to assume that the other guy is going to do exactly what you expect...what do you do if they change their minds. The best is to assume that everybody else on the road may do anything at anytime and that you should be mindful of what you would do if it were to happen.

A basic rule not taught by driving schools. Learners are not taught how to drive in the rain for instance. Maybe driving simulators can address this problem and when you have been involved in an accident, go back to simulator training to show that you are competent to handle unusual situations.

I must also add that I think a huge problem is our own sort of "F*ck you, I do what I want" attitude. We don't care about obeying traffic laws because they are not enforced (unless you consider extorting money using remote cameras as enforcement)

I cannot agree more. I do a lot of driving lately and am amazed at the poor driving skills displayed on the road. People are far too aggressive and impatient. They put themselves (and their passengers) in uncompromising situations and then blame someone else if an accident happens.

[ians]

I drive really bad when i travel slow, i tend to loose focus on the driving and start thinking about what happened the night before just before i fell asleep or, the job i am going to, etc etc.

when i drive fast, i concentrate and focus of what is going on around me.

I have a heavy duty truck license code EC and a big bike license code A, can pretty much drive anything with wheels.

Unfortunately because i spend some much time on the road i have become a real South African driver. When I drive my taxi, i drive like a taxi driver.

I become one of those Aholes who everyone complains about. I get places, I put my indicator and i go, i drive right up the left side and push in right at the front, etc etc. You dont like do it, do it as well then you dont have to bitch about it. Nothing is going to change, this is Africa, if anything it is only going to get worse.

The biggest problem with people on the road is they are toooo busy worrying about what everyone else is doing on the road, skrik that someone might take the gap in front of them, or the taxi driver pushing in 30 cars in front of then, than focusing on getting to their destination. I am a lot happier driving amongst taxi drivers than half the tossers on the road.

Wake up, drive fast, drive defensively and focus on what you are doing and stop worrying about every else on the road, you will be a happier person with less road rage.

[ians]

by the way, getting your nikkers in a knot only gets you worked up. The person you are ranting about had already forgotten about you within 2 minutes of the incident. I use to be super aggressive with huge road rage, getting into blows on the side of the road, now i just smile and take the gap, i have have insurance