Trade in and purchase of vehicle

[Fillet]

Hi there, I would be grateful if anyone can advise me on this:

I traded in my 2010 Hyundai IX35 in May 2011 with Dealer X who are part of the Independent Dealer Association F&I (IDAS), I purchased a 2011 Volvo S60 2.0 turbo from them, the Volvo proved to be not so reliable (only had 6000km) on the clock, took it in for repairs 3 times to the dealer and had long waiting periods as all parts had to come from Switzerland, the final straw was the clutch that went at 20 000km, waited two weeks for this to be fixed and was without a vehicle. So I decided to trade it in at dealer A (reputable dealer e.g BMW Audi etc) in May 2013. Received a call from dealer A 2 days ago (five months after trade and purchase) telling me that they had sold the Volvo to another fellow who had an independent check done on the car for whatever reason and found out it was a code 3 (I knew nothing about this) and needless to say he returned it to dealer A. The damage to the vehicle was around 300k so it was a write off. Dealer A had it checked and the chassis was bent, arch welded together, gear box had been welded etc. First question is why could Volvo not see this when it was on the hoist for two weeks at their dealership. Anyway dealer A wants to meet with me as I sold it to them and subtly suggested I am the last responsible person. Although Dealer A did check with transunion before they purchased the Volvo from me and there was no record of accident damage. The report on transunion only came up a month back to show it was a code 3 but the accident happened in 2010. Before I meet with Dealer A what are my rights, what are their rights? I need to know legally where I stand here as I cannot in my opinion be held accountable as I did not know about any of this. I would not have paid 300 000 for a code 3 vehicle.

[flaker]

Simply, i think Dealer A would have a claim against you. You, in turn, have a claim against Dealer X. Was the natis (log book) not coded? I think make Dealer X aware of this new set of events. ( Dealer A appears to be a franchised dealership (from your description). I think have the meeting with Dealer X. In my opinion that if it could be proven that you were sold a coded vehicle it was in all probability that Dealer X were not aware of it & am sure would make good

[Nickolai Naydenov]

I wouldn't care less if that was me, these dealers are sharks, they should have seen what they are buying, so it's their baby.

I'm actually looking to buy a vehicle at the moment and I've noticed that they are selling vehicles over retail value, in other words more than the vehicle is worth. i actually asked a dealer why should I pay more than retail value if that's what the car is worth and I also asked him what happens if I buy the car and tomorrow I have an accident, the insurance will only pay me retail value therefore I'm going to lose more than R60 000, he just kept on saying well the car is clean that's why hahaha... what a joke. What's even more interesting is that I'm looking for a convertible Mercedes which is not low maintenance etc, it's not the everyday car that they buy and sell and there's no huge demand for them but they still overprice and don't negotiate. However for them to trade in my car they want to give me less than the trade in value and that is for a year old car which still has motorplan and warranty, accident free etc. The most ridiculous offer I got was half of the retail value. These guys are making huge profits while they rip off people.

I'd actually would like to ask if somebody knows where can I find such a vehicle from a private seller which will be win win situation for both parties? As we have seen above buying from a dealer is not better.

[adrianh]

I did a bit of readingand found the following. A vehicle gets given code 3 if it had been deregistered and reregistered. Now, that could have occured for various reason, the vehicle may have been written off and rebuilt, the vehicle may have been stolen and recovered or the owner may have deregistered it for no apparent reason.

Code 3 does not automatically imply written off and rebuilt. If I were you I would tell dealer A the following; 1. to your knowledge the vehicle was code 3 due to being stolen and recovered and you had no reson to suspect that it had been rebuilt. 2. If they, daeler A suspected that something was amiss then they should have informed you of the issue before purching the vehicle from you, they, like you, had no reason to suspect that the vehicle was a rebuild. Or you could do what I would to and tell them to f-off

[AndyD]

I'd also tell them to get knotted. Any dealer selling a vehicle supposedly does their checklist and vprobably a full service before it leaves the forecourt. If the chassis was bent even after welding repairs and the gearbox had been welded then they should have noticed this long before it left. Plead complete and utter ignorance and if they want any info or details point them in the direction of the dealership you purchased from.

[Fillet]

i really appreciate your response gents, FYI, the vehicle was a code 3 due to it being in a serious accident. I claim to be innocent as I did not know, Audi must now take their fight up with the funny dealer. I have mailed Audi twice to ask if I can assist and they ignored both my responses.

[adrianh]

Yes, but as far as I am aware the registration papers should describe the vehicle as code 3 but it does not have to describe the exact reason for it being code 3. I THINK the problem is that if you lease a car the registration papers go to the bank because the bank owns the car till it is paid for. The "owner" may never see the papers if the car is traded before the lease agreement is up (

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Dealer A is implying that you misrepresented.
Misrepresentation can be deliberate or a failure to inform or correct a mistaken impression.
It seems you have done neither, further the dealer as an expert, would be expected to see these type of things. The converse being that the buyer, is not an expert, and is not expected to figure this out, unlike a broken window. This is the latent patent defect issue.
Fortunately for the new buyer, this is slightly easier with the consumer protection act.

[Fillet]

Dealer A is implying that you misrepresented.
Misrepresentation can be deliberate or a failure to inform or correct a mistaken impression.
It seems you have done neither, further the dealer as an expert, would be expected to see these type of things. The converse being that the buyer, is not an expert, and is not expected to figure this out, unlike a broken window. This is the latent patent defect issue.
Fortunately for the new buyer, this is slightly easier with the consumer protection act.

Excellent info, well today I will meet with both, I will lodge the complaint with ombudsman and furher to that I will get an expert from SA consumer complaints (lawyer) to represent me, he works with the AA and DTI to ensure the consumer (me) is protected.

[adrianh]

Don't sign anything and don't take responsibility for anything, simply hear them out and tell them you'll get back to them.