Working late

[Hannes Botha]

Hi guys,

I already have feedback from the RMI on what I can do to this guy, but thought I'd get your take on it as well.

Our office hours are from 08:00 to 17:00. So last night one of my guys packs away his tools at 17h00 and leaves, while the vehicle he was working on was not done. Now I have to ask one of the other guys to please finish his job, as the customer is standing waiting for his car...

I feel this should go toward: "Undermining of the business" or "Bringing the company name into disrepute"

[adrianh]

I would like to express two opposing opinions because I can see the issue from both sides:

1. The employer (Yes I am also an employer so I understand your frustrations) expects the employee to finish the car the same day if the employee was expected to do so.
2. The employee may have had an important prior arrangement (I am also a dad with two daughters and I often have to pick the girls up from school or skating or whatever).

The problem as I see it is communication. The employee should be instructed to communicate with you or the customer at 16:30 if the car will not be finished in time. He should also communicate that he has prior arrangements that cannot be changed. This way everybody know where they stand.

[Hannes Botha]

There has been prior instances with this guy. He doesn't say a word, just packs up and leave. Sometimes I only notice he is gone 15 minutes after he has left.

Firstly: I heeded the RMI's warning, and gave him a warning on another technicality, where he dissapeared to the shop after we told him to wait for a part we collected arouond the corner.

Secondly: We pay some guys that are used to being paid weekly (from their previous employment) an "advance" on a weekly basis. Plus we allow some guys to borrow money. This particular guy regularly asks to leave early as well. So my conversation with him went as follows: By law he doesn't have to work after 17:00. But by law I don't have to pay him an advance, nor loan him money, nor do I have to allow him to leave early. So if he doesn't have to go the extra mile, neither do I...

[bones]

my opinion is that he worked till your
closing time he really didnt do wrong

my clients know my shop close at 6
and i don't do business till next day

i understand the car wasnt done but
again he is following your rules unless
you sit him down and speak to him

i wouldnt go so far to give him any
type of warning because he didnt do
anything wrong

just talking to the guy in a positive
way will resolve this in my opinion

employers have responsibility so
does employees maybe he had to
do stuff that was important maybe
not but still he did nothing wrong

[adrianh]

There has been prior instances with this guy. He doesn't say a word, just packs up and leave. Sometimes I only notice he is gone 15 minutes after he has left.

Firstly: I heeded the RMI's warning, and gave him a warning on another technicality, where he dissapeared to the shop after we told him to wait for a part we collected arouond the corner.

Secondly: We pay some guys that are used to being paid weekly (from their previous employment) an "advance" on a weekly basis. Plus we allow some guys to borrow money. This particular guy regularly asks to leave early as well. So my conversation with him went as follows: By law he doesn't have to work after 17:00. But by law I don't have to pay him an advance, nor loan him money, nor do I have to allow him to leave early. So if he doesn't have to go the extra mile, neither do I...

I had a similar employee. The one hand washed the other hand all the time. I finally got rid of him because we got tired of his k@k attitude and of us having to be his social worker / atm / garnishee order manager / nappy changer.

[bones]

There has been prior instances with this guy. He doesn't say a word, just packs up and leave. Sometimes I only notice he is gone 15 minutes after he has left.

Firstly: I heeded the RMI's warning, and gave him a warning on another technicality, where he dissapeared to the shop after we told him to wait for a part we collected arouond the corner.

Secondly: We pay some guys that are used to being paid weekly (from their previous employment) an "advance" on a weekly basis. Plus we allow some guys to borrow money. This particular guy regularly asks to leave early as well. So my conversation with him went as follows: By law he doesn't have to work after 17:00. But by law I don't have to pay him an advance, nor loan him money, nor do I have to allow him to leave early. So if he doesn't have to go the extra mile, neither do I...

i hate this actually yes you do
give him advance and borrow
him money and allow him to go
early

the agreement is starting time
till closing time if you pay him
in advance that is your call if
you give him loans that is your
call if you want him to work
later hours then overtime is
fair

at each instance you could
have said no and not worry
about repayments of loans
people going home early
or paying them advance

you pay a worker to work
follow the rules and expect
them to be professional if
they dont like it they can
find other employment

where this one hand washes
the other thing comes from is
beyond me business is
business

[sakkie]

i hate this actually yes you do
give him advance and borrow
him money and allow him to go
early

the agreement is starting time
till closing time if you pay him
in advance that is your call if
you give him loans that is your
call if you want him to work
later hours then overtime is
fair

at each instance you could
have said no and not worry
about repayments of loans
people going home early
or paying them advance

you pay a worker to work
follow the rules and expect
them to be professional if
they dont like it they can
find other employment

where this one hand washes
the other thing comes from is
beyond me business is
business

I agree with bones on this one. Working hours is working hours. If you want him to stay and finish a job, overtime is payable.

We as business owners often forget that employees do not have the same commitment to the business as we do.

[Hannes Botha]

Guys, overtime was never the issue. If my guys work 5 mins past 17:00, I pay them time and a half...

"We as business owners often forget that employees do not have the same commitment to the business as we do"

This is a shame...part of our company mission handed out and signed by all is a quote: "We don't pay your salary, the customer does. We just manage the money"

Look at it from the customers point of view: This place is working on your car and you are standing waiting for it. Suddenly the technician packs up and leave, and you are left standing outside and told "Sorry sir, we close at 17:00"....would you ever go back there?

[bones]

Guys, overtime was never the issue. If my guys work 5 mins past 17:00, I pay them time and a half...

"We as business owners often forget that employees do not have the same commitment to the business as we do"

This is a shame...part of our company mission handed out and signed by all is a quote: "We don't pay your salary, the customer does. We just manage the money"

Look at it from the customers point of view: This place is working on your car and you are standing waiting for it. Suddenly the technician packs up and leave, and you are left standing outside and told "Sorry sir, we close at 17:00"....would you ever go back there?

i agree with you really i do
a stink attitude isnt right
and really i would talk to
all the employees about it

tell them where they stand
and refresh there memory
why it is important to give
the client the service they
expect

also warn them that you
will not tolerate this type
of behavior anymore and
spell out what you expect
form each of them

if this behavior continues
start the disciplinary
process

loyalty means nothing to
people nor does
commitment

but rules count so make
your rules work for you if
they dont like it there are
thousands of people that
will take there place under
your employment

[Entropy Group]

This is not as simple a problem as meets the eye. This is probably a huge communication (as someone has mentioned) and attitude problem. Questions you need to ask yourself are: When the car was booked in, was there a realistic expectation that the car could be finished before 17h00? When the employee received the job card/instruction, was there realistically enough time to finish the job? Were all spares, tool, equipment readily available to finish the job in the expected time frame? Was there a pre-arrangement with the employee regarding finishing the job, even if it goes beyond 17h00? Was the situation explained to the customer, that the job may not be finished before 17h00? Does the employee have the opportunity to challenge your decision to take on a job when there won't be sufficient time to finish it?

Bad attitude begins somewhere, at home, issues with kids, substance abuse, intimidation, workplace dissatisfaction, personality differences with immediate supervisor, perceived unfulfilled ambitions etc. There is not much in terms of legal requirement, that obligates an employer to get to the bottom of it, but those who do, more often than not, turn a problem employee into a star employee with relatively small input.

[bones]

This is not as simple a problem as meets the eye. This is probably a huge communication (as someone has mentioned) and attitude problem. Questions you need to ask yourself are: When the car was booked in, was there a realistic expectation that the car could be finished before 17h00? When the employee received the job card/instruction, was there realistically enough time to finish the job? Were all spares, tool, equipment readily available to finish the job in the expected time frame? Was there a pre-arrangement with the employee regarding finishing the job, even if it goes beyond 17h00? Was the situation explained to the customer, that the job may not be finished before 17h00? Does the employee have the opportunity to challenge your decision to take on a job when there won't be sufficient time to finish it?

Bad attitude begins somewhere, at home, issues with kids, substance abuse, intimidation, workplace dissatisfaction, personality differences with immediate supervisor, perceived unfulfilled ambitions etc. There is not much in terms of legal requirement, that obligates an employer to get to the bottom of it, but those who do, more often than not, turn a problem employee into a star employee with relatively small input.

yes the coin has 2 sides totally
within scope it is just i personally
tend not to trust anyone at all

i had a employee once and yea i
do all my work alone now my wife
and i are a team but i am lucky
because the business is small
enough to be handled by 2
people

[Justloadit]

This is not as simple a problem as meets the eye. This is probably a huge communication (as someone has mentioned) and attitude problem. Questions you need to ask yourself are: When the car was booked in, was there a realistic expectation that the car could be finished before 17h00? When the employee received the job card/instruction, was there realistically enough time to finish the job? Were all spares, tool, equipment readily available to finish the job in the expected time frame? Was there a pre-arrangement with the employee regarding finishing the job, even if it goes beyond 17h00? Was the situation explained to the customer, that the job may not be finished before 17h00? Does the employee have the opportunity to challenge your decision to take on a job when there won't be sufficient time to finish it?

Bad attitude begins somewhere, at home, issues with kids, substance abuse, intimidation, workplace dissatisfaction, personality differences with immediate supervisor, perceived unfulfilled ambitions etc. There is not much in terms of legal requirement, that obligates an employer to get to the bottom of it, but those who do, more often than not, turn a problem employee into a star employee with relatively small input.

A valid statement. I am also a boss, and also have staff, and there are instances that the situation described does arise, albeit in another form. Before acceptance of the job, I usually tell the customer that I need to confirm with my staff to see that it can be done, I then approach my staff and discuss if they are willing to stay after hours to complete the job.

In some instances the staff has other commitments and can not stay after hours to complete the job. At this time I inform the customer about the situation. Yes I could complete the job my self, but I also have my duties which I perform after hours, as it is the only time to get it done, postponement is not an option.

The majority of the times the customer comes back the next day. There are the few which complain and say I give a bad service. Quite honestly the ones that do complain only come when no one else can do the specific job they require, and secondly, are always the ones that complain that the price is expensive. I usually tell them that I am terribly sorry but that is the case. Very few do not return the next day.