4 employees vs the boss

[tec0]

I would imagine this being my opinion and not based on any law or anything that your friends will be better off looking for better work. Thing is with a boss like that why would you stick around. Recording devices are really inexpensive. I paid R300 for mine it is an audio video recorder that looks like a pen. Can record up to 1 hour.

I also have a 16Gb memory card in my phone and it will record audio for until the battery is flat. Quality is high enough. Log both recordings and keep a diary. All this will proof a forced resignation but really that doesn’t fix things long term. A boss like this they don’t take kindly to retaliation.

I do feel for your friends I really do but I think shopping for another job may well be a good call.

[league_of_ordinary_men]

I'm loath to comment, or predict, when it comes to constructive dismissal, for obvious reasons. Remembering that CD is only a claim when a person has resigned.
The most obvious being the ability to prove. It does help if there are a couple of employees as that creates some collaborating evidence, though the obvious defence is to say they are plotting, they did not like my new rules, etc, etc.

The guy who has a new job, probably may as well give it a whirl, as he has no risk.
The shifts - are not only unlawful, but are probably a unilateral change to terms and conditions. It does also help provide some proof of intolerable conditions.
Given the need to address the issue, to strengthen a case, my standard advice is
Set out the complaint, in writing, email being good, with regards to the issues.
The employer may correct the problem, which is great. If not, a critical element of the CD case has been met.
If the employer retaliated by dismissing, the employee is where he would be if he resigned, and with probably a stronger case.
If the employer merely steps up the victimisation, then again, the case is slightly stronger.
It is imperative, as suggested earlier, to keep a diary, (locked away), and record all instances immediately, while fresh. Then 're read later to rationalise the emotion out.

're the hearing - one can't pre empty that.

Really informative thank you for the advise.

I would imagine this being my opinion and not based on any law or anything that your friends will be better off looking for better work. Thing is with a boss like that why would you stick around. Recording devices are really inexpensive. I paid R300 for mine it is an audio video recorder that looks like a pen. Can record up to 1 hour.

I also have a 16Gb memory card in my phone and it will record audio for until the battery is flat. Quality is high enough. Log both recordings and keep a diary. All this will proof a forced resignation but really that doesn’t fix things long term. A boss like this they don’t take kindly to retaliation.

I do feel for your friends I really do but I think shopping for another job may well be a good call.

Yeah there at the point of just quieting and look for another job,but dam bosses like this just makes me so made.Good idea with the pen thanks.

[Justloadit]

Life is a bitch, and sometimes it needs a change to improve.

The type of boss described will continue to make your life hell, and if you win a case, even worse, he will fabricate evidence and even plant evidence to make your life hell.
You will find that these people are diabolical and will set their sights on you and will not stop till you are destroyed.

[tec0]

Life is a bitch, and sometimes it needs a change to improve.

The type of boss described will continue to make your life hell, and if you win a case, even worse, he will fabricate evidence and even plant evidence to make your life hell.
You will find that these people are diabolical and will set their sights on you and will not stop till you are destroyed.

Unfortunately I have to agree. My X X X X X xxxxxx boss got to the stage where he entered the apartment that I was renting from him and “searched” it. Regardless of the fact that he found nothing and later on realized that the theft was indeed form another family member and employee I was on my way out.

Truth is you don’t need people like that. After I left most of his employees did the same and his business became a shadow of what it was. See being the boss they think they can do whatever they want. They believe they are above the laws of normal men.

That said he made sure to mention that I was on his property and he will have me arrested because I was about to get physical. Still bosses like these just don’t worry about them. In future make sure you have both union and legal representation for the next boss. Be just as unforgiving as they are and don't let anything slide. Keep records form every conversation keep a diary of each and every encounter. If they cheat you with anything run to your representation and make sure they are actively involved.

[Justloadit]

Still not a way to spend your years on this planet. There is always something better further on, it takes guts to make the move, as change also can mean turmoil.
What is important, is that you must calculate the move, always have a back up plan when the shit hits the fan, simply living a day to day existence is not living!

Sometimes the place you are right now is a temporary inconvenience, part of the stepping stones to a better destination.

[league_of_ordinary_men]

One of the guy's wanted to know,he requested for some of his holiday leave on the 14th of this month and he wanted to know if he quits before his leave do they still have to pay him for the leave? And if he takes his leave and returns before the end of the month when his leave is finished and he quits before the end of the month and he doesn't work out his notice period can they have an excuse not to pay out his salary from the 1 to the 13th and the leave he took? And then one of the other guy's ask's if he quits can there be an excuse for them not to pay out the monthly deducted retirement fund?

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Leave pay is part and parcel of a package therefore, whether fired or resigning, it must be paid out.
A bonus or 13th cheque may or may not be paid depending on the contract terms.
The salary worked must be paid, HOWEVER, what many company's do when notice is not worked is withhold leave and/or salary. Strictly speaking the non working of notice is breach of contract and they should sue civilly unless the employment contract has a penalty clause.
The retirement depends on the rules, it should not be with the company. Quitting would not be a reason to not pay, but there may be penalties for early withdrawal etc. For instance sometimes the company contribution may be forfeited.

[league_of_ordinary_men]

Leave pay is part and parcel of a package therefore, whether fired or resigning, it must be paid out.
A bonus or 13th cheque may or may not be paid depending on the contract terms.
The salary worked must be paid, HOWEVER, what many company's do when notice is not worked is withhold leave and/or salary. Strictly speaking the non working of notice is breach of contract and they should sue civilly unless the employment contract has a penalty clause.
The retirement depends on the rules, it should not be with the company. Quitting would not be a reason to not pay, but there may be penalties for early withdrawal etc. For instance sometimes the company contribution may be forfeited.

As far as I know the retirement is with sanlam fortuno,I have one of there contracts with me and my afrikaans is a bit rusty but the only part it mentions anything about with holding salary in the ending of employment section it says "Die werkgewer mag sonder enige kennisgewing of enige betaaling,in plaas van kennisgewing in geval van growwe wangedrag of oneerlikheid deur die werknemer,die knotrak beeindig" now as I dont understand the growwe wnagedrag part,I mean what exactly does it mean?

[Dave A]

Before panicking about what might constitute "growwe wangedrag", it's probably worth pointing out that the employer terminating the pension contract does not imply the member's interest in the fund is forfeited

And certainly, resignation wouldn't constitute a serious offence.

[league_of_ordinary_men]

Before panicking about what might constitute "growwe wangedrag", it's probably worth pointing out that the employer terminating the pension contract does not imply the member's interest in the fund is forfeited

And certainly, resignation wouldn't constitute a serious offence.

Thanks Dave these guys are just trying to get there bearings straight before they make a move.Is it the job of the employer to request that funds owed to the employ be payed out or does the employ have to request it him self from sanlam?

[Dave A]

The exact process of withdrawing or moving funds will depend on the fund rules. However, it can't be unreasonable. And if it is, I believe there's a fairly effective industry ombudsman that will step in to assist.

I certainly wouldn't count on the funds becoming available on short notice though. In fact it shouldn't feature as an issue in their short term planning at all (unless they're planning to retire in the next few months )

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

A direct interpretation indicates that the notice period to the fund will be waived for growwe conduct.

[league_of_ordinary_men]

Update

So one off the 4 guys was accused of steeling stuff and the footage they have is a joke,the guy was pulling up his pants and they say he was hiding 4 cartons of cigarettes under his jacket and the best part is the boss gave him death threats and almost broke his nose.

[tec0]

So one off the 4 guys was accused of steeling stuff and the footage they have is a joke,the guy was pulling up his pants and they say he was hiding 4 cartons of cigarettes under his jacket and the best part is the boss gave him death threats and almost broke his nose.

Well you have the right to report any and all crimes and remember if someone attacks you it is a crime if someone accuse you falsely it is a crime. Never forget that you can act if you feel you must. The law is the law.

[CLIVE-TRIANGLE]

"Die werkgewer mag sonder enige kennisgewing of enige betaaling,in plaas van kennisgewing in geval van growwe wangedrag of oneerlikheid deur die werknemer,die kontrak beeindig"

You souties are struggling with this. It simply describes grounds for immediate dismissal without notice. Translated is says that if an employee is found guilty of gross misconduct or dishonesty, the employer may terminate the agreement without notice.

This is pretty much what any disciplinary code would say. It does attempt change the provisions of the BCOE which anyway makes provision for an employer to waive any notice period, but then obliges him to pay that notice period instead. It says "sonder enige betaling". This is contra the Act and will never fly.