Question regarding single phase electrical wiring of premises (Continued)

[Howler]

Good day all

Thank you all for your input regarding yesterday's post of the same subject.

The saga continues. The purpose of this post is to address 3 other areas that seems ambiguous to me.


My next query surrounds the COC itself.

1. Although both pages are yellow, and seems to have the right emblems on etc.

The only problem i have is that in the past i have been given a COC in booklet form, and these are two separate pages that are blank at the back.

Is this a legitimate COC form? See picture attached.

2. On one of the pages the supplementary box is ticked. Surely when this is the main COC that is handed over to the bank and to the insurance and to the new owner, this
has to be a standalone document, and somebody coming to install a separate piece of equipment then fills one of these supplementary COC's in that has to be attached to the main one.

Is this valid, or must i insist on receiving a proper COC where the supplementary box hasn't been ticked? Despite all the electrical faults and noncompliance wiring that has been plaguing us during this progress!!!

See picture.

3. And then lastly, there is the matter of timing. This Friday we are expecting the installation of our 5kva backup system, which we have been using as a plug and play unit this last month.
I suspect that after the installation, they will be issuing a supplementary COC ( as per point number 2)

In one of my phone conversation with this electrician who issued the COC, and informing him that we are using this inverter and certain circuits in the house makes the inverter trip he
then calmly refused to acknowledge any issues with him issuing the COC, and claiming that after us using the inverter his COC immediately expires. When i informed him that we are using
it as a plug and play unit in the meantime, he hung up the phone in my ear.

So my question is this. I am 4 days away from installation of the inverter. When they come install the wires, and issue supplementary COC, does this invalidate his COC, and immediately clear him from any wrongdoing?
Or can he still be hold accountable for issuing a certificate to wiring that doesn't comply to standards, to which this new company would not be doing any modifications to.

I would hate this to happen, but also have paid a heafty sum of money for the installation of this inverter. And cannot delay the process of fear of installation cost rising and the availability of said company
potentially getting cold feet if this drag out too long.



Once again thankyou to all the members and their advice.

Appreciate it greatly!!

Kind Regards

H

[Derlyn]

I have some time on my hands today, so here goes.

1. Not being able to see the whole form, it is difficult to say if the blank form is legit or not.

The form does not need to be yellow, neither does it have to be printed on both sides.
If it is in the format laid down by Dept of Labour and section 8 in SANS 10142 then it should be acceptable.
Note: Here we talking about the blank form only.

2. Supplementary box ticked.

Supplementary COC's need to be attached to the main or initial COC.
In my opinion, the property should never have been transferred into your name without a valid initial COC.
I would take this up with the transferring attorneys.

3. The initial COC does not become invalidated should a supplementary COC be issued for any new additions carried out.

As mentioned earlier, the supplimentary COC gets attached to the initial COC covering the additions that are not on the initial COC.
In the case of an inverter being installed, a seperate test report is issued for same. It does not invalidate the initial COC.


If I were in your position, I would approach the transferring attorney.
The chances of getting the problems resolved by the electrician who originally issued the COC are going to be greater if he is approached by the attorney.

[Howler]

Thx for that. Even though the supplementary box is ticked. All the light fittings, plugs , gate/garage motors and aircon is listed.

So i dont know how it can be suplimentary when everything is listed.

Thx

H

[Dave A]

In one of my phone conversation with this electrician who issued the COC, and informing him that we are using this inverter and certain circuits in the house makes the inverter trip ...
When i informed him that we are using it as a plug and play unit in the meantime...

Is this inverter supplying those circuits in the house that make the inverter trip?

[Howler]

Is this inverter supplying those circuits in the house that make the inverter trip?

Hi Dave

Yes. We were using it as a plug and play. The inverter tripped when one of the plug circuits was activated.
We traced the problem to a faulty plug socket that has since been replaced with a CBI unit.

This sorted out the problem.

I only highlighted the problem between the inverter and the faulty socket as this fault was present when the COC was issued.

thx

H

[Dave A]

Hi Dave

Yes. We were using it as a plug and play. The inverter tripped when one of the plug circuits was activated.
We traced the problem to a faulty plug socket that has since been replaced with a CBI unit.

This sorted out the problem.

I only highlighted the problem between the inverter and the faulty socket as this fault was present when the COC was issued.

thx

H

Who connected it to the installation?

[Howler]

Who connected it to the installation?

It has not been connected as yet.

Its plug and play unit that charges from a wall socket. When load shedding start then one
must remove the charging connection and then introduce a new connection between the wall socket and the double socket that
provides power that is on the inverter. Very much like a generator.

A permanent installation is happening this weekend. were the unit will give power to only necessary circuits and will come on automatically
during load shedding. This circuit will most likely get its own mini db and earth leakage with switch over for in case the batterys die bevore municipal
supply comes back on.

thx

H

[Howler]

It has not been connected as yet.

Its plug and play unit that charges from a wall socket. When load shedding start then one
must remove the charging connection and then introduce a new connection between the wall socket and the double socket that
provides power that is on the inverter. Very much like a generator.

A permanent installation is happening this weekend. were the unit will give power to only necessary circuits and will come on automatically
during load shedding. This circuit will most likely get its own mini db and earth leakage with switch over for in case the batterys die bevore municipal
supply comes back on.

thx

H

I have to add, the faulty wall socket that was replaced, is not the wall socket that was used to charge/give supply from and to the inverter.

This was a wall socket on the other side of the house, that was causing the inverter to trip, when that circuit was switched back on at the main db.

Regards

H

[Howler]

The supplementary box might have been ticked on the first page, but the second page list all the circuits and motors etc.

This was handed over explicitly being advertised as the MAIN COC. Everything is listed. So im still not clear on the question whether the supplementary tick
somehow invalidates this as being the main COC. Please advise.

Herewith the cropped picture of the 2nd page.

Thx again and appreciate the ongoing patience with me regarding these problems.

[Dave A]

Its plug and play unit that charges from a wall socket. When load shedding start then one
must remove the charging connection and then introduce a new connection between the wall socket and the double socket that
provides power that is on the inverter. Very much like a generator.

Sounds like what is known in the industry as a "suicide chord" supply...

Please don't do that again.
Plug your TV and a light stand into the inverter by all means, but please don't back feed into the electrical installation through one of the socket outlets. It really isn't designed to work that way and is a genuinely dangerous practice.

[Derlyn]

I would insist on a COC marked initial.

Should you, in the future, have an insurance claim, the chances are good that the claim will be rejected if this COC were produced.

Another thing is that any corrections made on the COC will invalidate it, so a new one needs to be issued. ( I waste quite a couple )

[Howler]

I would insist on a COC marked initial.

Should you, in the future, have an insurance claim, the chances are good that the claim will be rejected if this COC were produced.

Another thing is that any corrections made on the COC will invalidate it, so a new one needs to be issued. ( I waste quite a couple )

Hi Dave

I suspected as much.

Thx for the input, i have listed this concern into the back and forth emails between us, the property agent, and the offending electrician.

Thx a bunch.

H