[Question] COC repairs

[murdock]

what are the regulations with regards to COC repairs...if i am instructed to carry out and inspection report...which i do...the list is long...so the "customer" decides to do the repairs...which i dont have aproblem with...but when i request the registered electricans invoice for the repairs carried out...i am told they will get a quote from someone else...to carry out the final inspection.

but here is where it gets interesting...how can a different comapany be called in to do the final test...or better still...how does the other company even know that there have been major changes to the installation?

[murdock]

there is a way around this....i could have over looked the fact that the handy man did the repairs and carried out a full inspection like the new inspector is gona do...so why do we need registered electricians when we can just use the local handy man or diy fella to do the work at a fraction of the cost of a qualified person and just say it was an exsisting installation...and you wonder why i am wasting my time on this...because i can tell you right now i can already see my payment for this job flying out the window...

the bottom line is the inspection report must be seperated from the COC and until this happens we will continue to have this payment problem when it comes to signing over COCs

it needs to be clear cut...inspection report document with a fee.
but here is also the catch is the inspector must make sure he fills out the inspection report correctly so that all the test results with the revevant faults and the reference to the sans .

example the right way to do it...

Main Distribution board

1.1) code violation (6.6.1.19) - insufficient blanks (4)
1.2) code violation (6.8.2.2) - warning labels insufficient (4) this one is especially for dave

the ( number ) in the backet would be the action and how critical
1..."requires urgent attention"
2..."requires improvement"
3..."requires further investigation"
4..."does not comply with sans 10142-1:2009 edition 1.7 as amended


so that the person who carries out the repairs understands...knows where to find the problem and can identify them.

if you think you are a smart ass and dont fill out the inspection report correctly then the customer would have a claim for none payment because you have not filled out the documentation correctly and therefore you report would be deemed incomplete...and yes think would make 99% of inspection reports incomplete... and yes at R350 (the latest rate i have seen advertised) it is impossible to do all this.


then no matter who does the repairs can sign over the coc if he has the correct qualification without having to carry out a full inspection report again...and either include filling out and issuing the COC in the repair cost

or get the inspector back to check the work and now charge a small fee to check the repairs done by the registered electrician or under the supervision of a registered electrician for what is know as the certifcate of compliance...

and people until we get this right we will continue with this constant battle for our money for doing inspection reports.

[Dave A]

and people until we get this right we will continue with this constant battle for our money for doing inspection reports.

Get your money or the financial guarantees up front before you do the test. Period.

The only other alternative is a high bad debt rate for this type of work.

then no matter who does the repairs can sign over the coc if he has the correct qualification without having to carry out a full inspection report again

Are you prepared to sign off on someone else's test results?

[Sparks]

That is the problem Dave, too many are prepared to do just that.
In part I do agree with Murdock though, however, on the inspection report I would rather just indicate which codes are being violated, without a layman's description. That way the chances of a "handyman" doing the work are lower.
Another sticky, the COC number must be endorsed on all the pages of the Inspection report. The one compiled by the guy who did the first inspection or does the guy who certifies make out a new one? I agree with you that we would rather make our own reports out Dave, so why bother with the first one? Especially if it has a calculated PSC of 16kA.
If I suspect a client has sinister ideas I submit a quote with only the regulation codes. I am not obligated to provide a detailed faults list in layterms.
I am starting to think that all my quotes should be like that.

[Dave A]

The test report that goes on our COC is the situation as at when we issued the COC, not when the first test was done* and the the faults were discovered.

If someone else does the repairs and we're expected to issue the COC after, we do a full retest - albeit at a reduced charge.

*assuming there were faults found on that initial test, of course. If it tests clear first time, there is no second round and the COC is issued.

[murdock]

That is the problem Dave, too many are prepared to do just that.
In part I do agree with Murdock though, however, on the inspection report I would rather just indicate which codes are being violated, without a layman's description. That way the chances of a "handyman" doing the work are lower.
Another sticky, the COC number must be endorsed on all the pages of the Inspection report. The one compiled by the guy who did the first inspection or does the guy who certifies make out a new one? I agree with you that we would rather make our own reports out Dave, so why bother with the first one? Especially if it has a calculated PSC of 16kA.
If I suspect a client has sinister ideas I submit a quote with only the regulation codes. I am not obligated to provide a detailed faults list in layterms.
I am starting to think that all my quotes should be like that.

i think you are on the right track here...because the repair work must be done by...or supervised by a registered person who should know the regulations.

[Sparks]

I spoke to the sparky who did that disgraceful COC for my nephew today. Said I would give him the opportunity to do it over before I go to DOL. I suspect he did his trade in an industrial setup. He has not yet made an appointment with my nephew to go to the site. I will be flying to Joburg tomorrow and then contact him again. This time the property will be certified correctly. I still cannot believe that he sounded so bewildered when I said that I had found more than 20 irregularities on the COC. Maybe he will look up PSC because by the response over the telephone(or lack thereof), it did not appear as though he knew what I was talking about. While I will be there I will be wanting to get some materials too, anyone want to recommend a supplier in the Alberton or Kempton Park area? Normal domestic supplies and electric fencing supplies?

[Sparks]

Can you believe it? I just spoke to my nephew. The sparky agrees to fix what my nephew wants done. Who is accredited?
He had the cheek to ask if anything was tripping the power and then left.

[Dave A]

I suspect he did his trade in an industrial setup.

Good point. I think the issue of range of exposure is under-rated as a cause of problems, particularly when it comes to tests on existing installations. The COC test game is... testing.

(I was going to say more to back that up, but on second thoughts the example I was going to use is a little too current).

[Sparks]

It could be usefull to pinpoint the problem areas, especially with all the affirmative action the country has seen. There are a lot of guys who out of neccessity start up on their own after years of being in a totally different enviroment. Few have taken the trouble to get the ammendments and as a result are making lots of mistakes. A guy working at a factory with a roof 30+ meters high will never consider earthing a carport roof. There are plenty of hazards those guys are not used to considering.

[Dave A]

Well I'll say this much then.

Construction is quiet and a few construction electricians have started fishing in the COC test pond. Trouble is I've seen enough examples where we've failed their fairly simple new installations that they've issued COCs on. I'm scared sh*tless as to how these guys are going to do on the range of existing installation situations they're going to have to face where you really need a healthy grip on the full set of reg issues.

Putting in a component and researching the related regs issues to make sure what you are doing is compliant is one thing - but you have to know the regs pretty much inside out and back to front if you're going into the business of identifying contraventions in existing installations.