[Question] Adding a plug point without issuing a COC

[Dave A]

What is the legal position on this?

If you add a plug point but are not able to issue a COC for some reason (for example, the plug circuit you're extending isn't on earth leakage), are you legally allowed to add the plug point, but simply not issue the COC?

Or are you obliged to ensure that the circuit is brought up to standard so that a COC can be issued on the addition to the electrical installation?

[AndyD]

I work the other way around. I do at least a cursory check for circuit compliance at the quotation stage, if there's something that needs attention I give them two quotes but won't work on a circuit that's non-compliant or dangerous for some reason.

[murdock]

sockets outlets covered by section 6.15

note earth leakage protection on socket outlets is compulsory except where specified otherwise(see 6.7.5)

6.7.5.1 except as allowed in 6.7.5.5 and 7.10.1.6 non auto reclosing earth leakage protection shall be provided

a) in an installation for sockets that supply sans 164-1 or 2 type sockets

b) in an exsisting installation for all circuits that supply sockets when any such circuit or circuits are REWIRED or EXTENDED.

note. it is recommended that earth leakage protection be installed in all circuits that supply socket outlets in an exsisting installation
but unfortunately in the real world this doesnt apply because the customer doesnt want to spend the additional money and the contractor thinks to himself...this could turn into a real problem because once the e/l unit has been installed there could be all sorts of issues which didnt affect the installation until the unit is installed... low insulation readings on apppliances and wiring.

but here is the JOKE...the part that gets me everytime.

i come along to do a inspection report so that i can issue a coc.

during the visual inspection i notice a brand new socket...how because it sticks out like a sore thumb in comparison to the rest and if it was a double socket which didnt fit in the old 4x2 box will now have a nice new plastic 4x4 extension box and no earth connection between the old piping which is the earthing sytem in old installtions and the new socket because of the plastic box.

so now i have to fit an earth leakage before i can issue a coc...but i decide not to because i am just so tired of this type of kak and leave it...WHO IS TO BLAME.

yip you guessed right not the customer...not the idiot who took a chance...ME the fool who signs over the coc...BECAUSE I SHOuLD HAVE KNOWN BETTER and shouldnt have issed the coc because of the new socket.

so what would would happen to the contractor who installed the plug...zip zero nothing...

but in reality...luckily for me the fool who signs over the coc...nothing would happen to me either because we dont have system in place yet to procecute...someone would contact me and ask me nicely to sort it out...and i would tell them to go fly a kite because i didnt install the plug to start with.

but here is the unfortunate part...like the instance where the 2 year old was electricuted to death...the only one who looses out is the 2 year old who is no buried and doesnt get to experience the joys of life...the customer still get to enjoy life maybe with some guilt every now and again.

i hope this thread makes you think a little before you always think about money...and dont let your kid or grand child stand on the front seat while driving to the shop in the car.

[Dave A]

OK. So should the electrical contractor refuse to add the plug point under these circumstances and insist it's a "new plug point + earth leakage or no new plug point" deal only?

[murdock]

correct no earth leakage...no new plug socket would be the correct route.

this rule doesnt apply to replacing an exsisting plug socket...if you remove an esisting plug socket and replace it...you dont have to fit an earth leakage...but make sure the electrcian who fits the new plug connects an earth between the earth point of the socket and the metal box...if a plastic plug is fitted or alternatively fit a crabtree plug which is metal and only the cover is plastic

but i would write on my invoice please note there is not an earth leakage unit and would strongly advise you to have one fitted...this unfortunately opens you up again for a thrashing...which i will go into another time.

[Dave A]

That's my view too.

[Capybara]

Hi Andy,
I need some advice. What is the standard cost of moving a plug point, say 300mm higher than where it is positioned presently. I dont want to get ripped off. Better know in advance. Is there a standard price for these things?

[AndyD]

These 'how much would it cost' questions are difficult to answer. There's too many variables to give a meaningful figure. I would guess somewhere between R800 and R2000. That said if it's a face-brick wall or marble tiling you might be in for a shock...metaphorically speaking.

Why would you want to relocate a socket point by 300mm, is the position really that critical?

[murdock]

the cost depends on the customer...you can have a plug moved from R200 depending on who you get to do it and how much you are prepapred to spend...

the cheap way to do it would be to simply install a piece of twin+e glued on the surface...

or you could spend a little more and chase the twin+e into the wall so you dont see it...a little more expensive

or the way i normally doit chase a plastic pipe into the wall...the most expensive way...

all above mentioned methods are legal...the company or individual carrying out the work needs to be registered

[Dave A]

As Murdoch points out, there's cheap and nasty (everything surface mount) and there's quality (chased in, flush mount) - and when you consider the difference in manhours and skill between the two, a substantial difference in cost is only to be expected.

[Sparks]

Even surface mount there is a correct and an incorrect way to do it. Moving it will also require it to be certified because the circuit is being extended. From what I hear the issueing of the COC can cost R500 with the work even being done.

[Capybara]

plug points

I am renovating the kitchen and as a result I need to re-position some sockets/plugpoints on the concrete walls. Some points need to be moved higher, for eg. eye-level oven connection and microwave connection by minimum 500 mm. I would like to know the average costs per point. I do understand that costs would vary, depending on the the distance also.

[Dave A]

Chase, fit conduit and box, wire, return to fit plug point and connect - probably something in the region of R400 to R800 per point, assuming your general contractor does the plastering in. There is an issue of scale. Two points are going to cost more per point than 20.

If you're using a stove socket outlet, that'll cost more. Those stove sockets aren't nearly as cheap as plug points.

[Capybara]

Cost per plug point.

Thanks a lot.

[Sparks]

Just keep in mind, a cooker plug is for free standing only. An ELO requires hard wire from the isolator. Remember too that NO socket outlets are allowed on the cooker circuit.