UK Electrician... just don't know what else to do...

[skatingsparks]

I have been on here a few times asking bits and pieces about getting wireman's licence(installation electrician) sorted and this is basically my last.... don't know what you call it but anyway...

So I am a UK trained electrician, 10+ years. I am here in SA on the Skills Quota Visa(girlfriend is South African) and after much messing around got my UK qualifications assessed by SAQA. When I say messing around I mean hours on the phone, dozens of emails, dozens of letters and a 4 month trip back to the UK for more qualifications and then sitting in there office 3 day straight to make sure they have everything they need. So SAQA say my qualifications equate to an NQF 4, which is bit rubbish because I have been told you can get to an NQF 4 in about 1 year and 3 months(correct me if I'm wrong) if you do all levels back to back and would take at least 3 years to get the papers I have(if you really went for it).

So I hassel the ECA, trying to find out what I need to do to get my wireman's and have been doing so for over a year. I did the installation rules exam, passed(friking hard but passed). Did the COC course, not rocket science.

All these courses(ones in the UK and here) and the trip back to the UK have basically wiped out my savings. Saved for hard to come here, and i mean F^%$£"g hard for a really long time just to be dicked around. I haven't worked here since last November and have spent the time since trying to get my wireman's.

I have been signing of my own work in the UK for quite a few years and its not as if I'm fresh out of college. I'm not saying I know everything about electricity, no one does, but I'm sure I know enough to work out anything I come up against.

I went to the ECA today and now(after all the times I have been up there) tell me I have to do another one of there course. An assessment of foreign qualifications, costing 2800 rand. Why they didn't tell me to do that course a year ago I don't know. Now I have to wait until Feburary 8th to do that and even then after that I have to do units of credit for testing of a single phase and 3 phase testing. I don't think they realize the impact of there advise has been on my life. If I need to do something, tell me and I'll get it sorted. I was told I needed and equivalent of an NQF 4 before they can do anything, I go back to teh UK get more qualifications, and it still isn't enough

I can't start my own business, visa restrictions. Haven't done the SA trade test and don't intend to spend the 11 grand charged for the preparation to do it either. I'm due to do it some time between now and September 2010 according to the useless people at Olifontain, but who knows

If anyone has any ideas what I can do as after a year of messing around with this I'm pretty much broke. I have spent a fortune trying to sort this out, not to mention the lost the wages would usually get if i had just stayed working in the UK.(don't care if you have the weather and the so called SA lifestyle ain't so great to be honest, not a patch on what life was like in the UK, you just sit and wait for things to be sorted here, great).

I have wasted a year of my life on this

Open to suggestions and no the girlfriend won't go back to the UK, her families here.

CV if you know anyone who would be interested

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9b47474f1e76bc79ab1eab3e9fa335ca938b19ba0e1b98eb

Out of ideas and enthusiasm....

[skatingsparks]

and if any South African person ever mentions skills shortage to me...... HELLLLOOOO!!!! Why would anyone with a skill come here, Australia and NZ welcome you with open arms as does the UK.

[Dave A]

Open to suggestions and no the girlfriend won't go back to the UK, her families here.

She must be absolutely spectacular - you've put yourself through so much.

[Jacques#1]

Hi

The new unit standards NQF 4 has recently been implemented (2 or 3 years or so). I know as I waited to long to get my wiremans, and after I finally took the time to apply, they said I needed the subjects. So, reluctantly I did it, and went to trhe DOL.

When I wrote my electrical trade it was the first year of the learnership system (different to the apprenticeship system). So Department of Labour did not recognise my qualification. I then got the head of SAQA, ECETA, CHIETA and petroleum SETA in a room with the DOL. After a long discussion and explaining to them that the system I started on was still the apprenticeship system (in fact, with not knowing what was going on on the SETA's part I took 3 years to qualify, and wrote 1st, 2nd and 3rd year trade test, with the final trade test being 7 jobs instead of the usual 5), only with a different name, they agreed that I am a qualified electrician on the old system. I eventually got my wiremans licence. This took around 2 years to get.

I would suggest that you phone the DOL and ask them exactly what you need. Once they say you need a,b,c (usually in writing), then go do that only and get back to them.

You would most probably need to get your foreign qualifications approved by SAQA (theory), and practical ESETA. Then you would need the 2 unit standards (no getting around that one).

Some usefull tel no?

ESETA 011 689 5300
SAQA 012 431 5000
Department of Labour 012 309 4000 also DOL/Lesedi Mathinya 012 309 4378

[skatingsparks]

She must be absolutely spectacular - you've put yourself through so much.

yep, she is.

[MichaelB]

and if any South African person ever mentions skills shortage to me...... HELLLLOOOO!!!! Why would anyone with a skill come here, Australia and NZ welcome you with open arms as does the UK.

So...what are you doing here? I guess we should NEVER underestimate the power of a woman!

[skatingsparks]

Thanks for the info Jaques. I'll give the DOL a call again. I had my Qualification assessed by SAQA and it came back as an NQF 4. When I originally called the department of labour i put it to them that as SAQA recognize my UK City and Guild 2391 Testing and inspecting then would that not be acceptable to cover the unit standards, the testing of a 3 phase installations, because the City and guilds 2391 more than covers whats in the unit standards. In the UK you do your electricians course which covers testing as well and if you want to, you can do the additional city and guilds 2391. The South African rules are taken from the UK regs book anyway. Same electrical system, same voltage, same frequency, same earthing systems.
I was told by the ECA that I don't need to do a trade test if I have an NQF 4, which is why I went back to the UK to get more qualifications. SAQA told me what I needed to get an NQF4 evaluation and that is what I went and got back in London. The reason I went to get it in London because it was quicker to fly back to the UK do more qualifications(which are more recognized world over compared to SA's, no offence). I couldn't get information on where to do the NQF4 here and I couldn't wait until September 2010 to do the trade test(I went to Olifontain directly, first available date, some time in 2010).

All jobs seem obsessed with the trade test. Now, again no offence, all the guys who I worked with at the airport who had there trade test could draw a lovely picture of a star delta starter but didn't have a frikin clue how it worked. They admitted to memorizing which pins you link out on the trade test board and hurray the motor runs. When I inquired about doing the trade preparation I was quoted about 11000 rand. After 12 years of doing this I am not really willing to pay that kind of money to do little jobs in cubicle which people usually pay me to do.

The testing thing is a problem because I haven't been able to get work since the airport job was completed and I haven't been able to make up a portfolio of tests and inspections for the unit standards. I have been testing and inspecting for 10 years+ and used to work a Megger (worlds leading test instrument manufacturer). I supervised and worked on the clean air floor where the meters are made, supervised and and worked on the rewiring of the calibration area, and we also rewired there store room over a period of 2 and half years and tested the whole lot myself. I feel I am a competent tester.

All these problems have put so much stress on my relationship with my girlfriend who I went through all this for that we are falling apart because its all I do. Try and sort this out. Since we have been here we haven't been able to enjoy SA because of worries about money, spending my savings whilst trying resolve this.

It seems more important here to tick the correct boxes rather than have people who have a good idea what there doing, doing a job.

I just hope i can pull her back and resolve all this. All this effort for nothing would be a bitter pill to swallow

[Jacques#1]

I agree with you that they are extremely concerned about ticking the right boxes, believe me I did all the necessary fighting to get to the point where I am now.

The two subjects you need is:

Test and Inspect 3 Phase Electrical Installation (Unit Standard No. 113894) NQF Level 4

Complete Certificate of Compliance for 3 Phase Electrical Installation (Unit Standard no. 13683) NQF Level 5

I also did my full qualification with three phase installation exams etc, but this standards is new and they are adiment (spelling) that it shall be done . You also do get the unfortunate rotten apples...guys who don't know anything about their trades, and in a good way the DOL is trying to ensure that these guys don't get to sign off a house and put peoples lives in danger, and yes, I really do understand and agree that its rubbish that they force good guys to struggle to get one step ahead.....

Try these guys...they are in the Cape though, I went down there to complete my Ustds, around R6000. They do the practical on site (simulated).

Western Cape Approved Electrical Inspection Authority
1 Robert Rd
Kraaifontein
7570

Tel; 021 9873010
Fax; 021 9873083
Email: training@wcaeia.co.za

Have you tried also:

ECA(SA) Highveld Region
Tel: 011 392 0000
Fax: 086 660 3814
Website: www.ecasa.co.za

(electrical contractors association...they do full training on site, dont know about their practical though? You would have to join them once you do get your accreditation as they register you with the ECB - electrical contractors board, and they act on behalve of the DOL)

[Dave A]

You would have to join them once you do get your accreditation as they register you with the ECB - electrical contractors board, and they act on behalve of the DOL)

Now there's an interesting statement. Is that really your understanding of the position of the ECA?

[Jacques#1]

Now there's an interesting statement. Is that really your understanding of the position of the ECA?

Not exactly....I went to their road show the other day, and SABS, ECA and ECB had slots in the show. According to memory : The ECB was appointed by the government i.e minister to do the administration part of registering an electrical tester etc. Since the ECB is merely a group of people and not a orginisation/business (lack of a better word), the ECA was appointed as one of the orginisations where you can register as an accredited person.... electrical tester in this regard. This excludes the registering of electrical contractors, union functions, training intitute/programmes, developing icw SABS new standards etc. Am I making sense?

[skatingsparks]

Hi Jaques, that place in Cape town you mention. You say you can do the practical there. What I have asked by the ECA to do is a little portfolio with some pictures of faults and a little diagram explaining why its not to the sans regs and put soem test results in there for good measure. Now the obvious problem is that to do that I need a job, haven't had much joy in that department yet (my CV is spread far and wide accross SA, not one response) so I can't put together a nice little portfolio.(besides I don't want to do a load of work making a portfolio just for it to be put on the bloody great pile that they have at the ECA). When you say you can do practical does that mean you can go in there do whats needed and come out with the unit standards, because thats all I really want to do. Go in, pay, be assessed, walk out with unit standards, jods a good'n. I'm going down to cape town next week, I'm going to call in and see what they say.
Cheers
Skatingsparks

[Jacques#1]

Hi Jaques, that place in Cape town you mention. You say you can do the practical there. What I have asked by the ECA to do is a little portfolio with some pictures of faults and a little diagram explaining why its not to the sans regs and put soem test results in there for good measure. Now the obvious problem is that to do that I need a job, haven't had much joy in that department yet (my CV is spread far and wide accross SA, not one response) so I can't put together a nice little portfolio.(besides I don't want to do a load of work making a portfolio just for it to be put on the bloody great pile that they have at the ECA). When you say you can do practical does that mean you can go in there do whats needed and come out with the unit standards, because thats all I really want to do. Go in, pay, be assessed, walk out with unit standards, jods a good'n. I'm going down to cape town next week, I'm going to call in and see what they say.
Cheers
Skatingsparks

This is exactly what they do. You walk in there with all your information, they go through some information on SANS10142, they take you to their panels (same as training centre panels with 3 phase and 1phase), they show you around, and you start practicing to test on these panels with their help. By the end of the week (Thursday/Friday) you test a 3 phase and 1phase installation by yourself, and if you pass, you pass. Monday the following week they send the information to DOL for accreditation. This process takes a few weeks.

Phone them first, ask them what you need to bring with (they only do the course with a few people in attendace so you need to book). These guys are inspectors, and the time I were there some of them had master wiremans with more than 10 years experience......point is, they know the business and teach you learn a lot if you ask the questions. They supplied me with all the tools. The whole course is a week, from around 8/9am to 2/3 pm per day.

A place to stay about 5 minutes away.....Vredekloof country Lodge. 27 Aristea Street, Vredekloof Heights, Brackenfell Tel +27 (21) 982 6505 Fax +27 (21) 982 2074. Bit expensive compared to a formula one hotel, but it works.

[Liz D]

Liz D

Hi It is unaceptable that you have been given the run around by ill advised individuals. You can contact Nick at P and T Technology on 011 827 4113/6 and he will be able to help you. He works with the , ESETA, CHIETA,DOL, is chairman of the Electrical Inspection authority and will give you honest advice and steer you in the right direction. He runs a Electrical training
centre which is also an accredited trade test centre. It is not about money with him but about doing things right.

I have been on here a few times asking bits and pieces about getting wireman's licence(installation electrician) sorted and this is basically my last.... don't know what you call it but anyway...

So I am a UK trained electrician, 10+ years. I am here in SA on the Skills Quota Visa(girlfriend is South African) and after much messing around got my UK qualifications assessed by SAQA. When I say messing around I mean hours on the phone, dozens of emails, dozens of letters and a 4 month trip back to the UK for more qualifications and then sitting in there office 3 day straight to make sure they have everything they need. So SAQA say my qualifications equate to an NQF 4, which is bit rubbish because I have been told you can get to an NQF 4 in about 1 year and 3 months(correct me if I'm wrong) if you do all levels back to back and would take at least 3 years to get the papers I have(if you really went for it).

So I hassel the ECA, trying to find out what I need to do to get my wireman's and have been doing so for over a year. I did the installation rules exam, passed(friking hard but passed). Did the COC course, not rocket science.

All these courses(ones in the UK and here) and the trip back to the UK have basically wiped out my savings. Saved for hard to come here, and i mean F^%$£"g hard for a really long time just to be dicked around. I haven't worked here since last November and have spent the time since trying to get my wireman's.

I have been signing of my own work in the UK for quite a few years and its not as if I'm fresh out of college. I'm not saying I know everything about electricity, no one does, but I'm sure I know enough to work out anything I come up against.

I went to the ECA today and now(after all the times I have been up there) tell me I have to do another one of there course. An assessment of foreign qualifications, costing 2800 rand. Why they didn't tell me to do that course a year ago I don't know. Now I have to wait until Feburary 8th to do that and even then after that I have to do units of credit for testing of a single phase and 3 phase testing. I don't think they realize the impact of there advise has been on my life. If I need to do something, tell me and I'll get it sorted. I was told I needed and equivalent of an NQF 4 before they can do anything, I go back to teh UK get more qualifications, and it still isn't enough

I can't start my own business, visa restrictions. Haven't done the SA trade test and don't intend to spend the 11 grand charged for the preparation to do it either. I'm due to do it some time between now and September 2010 according to the useless people at Olifontain, but who knows

If anyone has any ideas what I can do as after a year of messing around with this I'm pretty much broke. I have spent a fortune trying to sort this out, not to mention the lost the wages would usually get if i had just stayed working in the UK.(don't care if you have the weather and the so called SA lifestyle ain't so great to be honest, not a patch on what life was like in the UK, you just sit and wait for things to be sorted here, great).

I have wasted a year of my life on this

Open to suggestions and no the girlfriend won't go back to the UK, her families here.

CV if you know anyone who would be interested

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9b47474f1e76bc79ab1eab3e9fa335ca938b19ba0e1b98eb

Out of ideas and enthusiasm....

[skatingsparks]

Hi there Jaques
Went to see those people you recommended and it sounds very promising. They seem very sure of what I need to do, none of the usual d^%$ing around and come back in a while or , just wait. It was just right, you need this, this and this and this is when you can do it and this is how much it will cost.

Which is exactly all I have wanted all along.

Its not cheap like you say but I would rather fly back down from Jo'burg, hire a car, pay for a hotel and the course just to get it done because its better than being messed around anymore and waiting. As the old expression goes "time is money". Trying to sort out flights for the course before Christmas.

If anyone can think of anything that the DOL could possible ask for then please let me know before I fork out another large wedge of cash.

I have the NQF 4 (UK Certs assassed by SAQA came back as NQF 4), have installation rules papers 1 and 2 and will hopefully soon be paying a small fortune to come back to cape town to sort out the "testing and inspection of a 3 phase installation" unit standards as previously mentioned.

I can do no more.

By the, way many thanks to Jaques. Hopefully I'm on the right path now

[Jacques#1]

Hi there Jaques
Went to see those people you recommended and it sounds very promising. They seem very sure of what I need to do, none of the usual d^%$ing around and come back in a while or , just wait. It was just right, you need this, this and this and this is when you can do it and this is how much it will cost.

Which is exactly all I have wanted all along.

Its not cheap like you say but I would rather fly back down from Jo'burg, hire a car, pay for a hotel and the course just to get it done because its better than being messed around anymore and waiting. As the old expression goes "time is money". Trying to sort out flights for the course before Christmas.

If anyone can think of anything that the DOL could possible ask for then please let me know before I fork out another large wedge of cash.

I have the NQF 4 (UK Certs assassed by SAQA came back as NQF 4), have installation rules papers 1 and 2 and will hopefully soon be paying a small fortune to come back to cape town to sort out the "testing and inspection of a 3 phase installation" unit standards as previously mentioned.

I can do no more.

By the, way many thanks to Jaques. Hopefully I'm on the right path now

Its a pleasure, I can only tell you what I know from my experience. Attached is a link to the DOL registered person brochure, on the last page is the foreign qualifications bit, which may help you. This is the DOL's form, so as long as you meet these requirements they can't argue.

http://www.uif.gov.za/downloads/documents/useful-documents/occupational-health-and-safety/Information%20brochure%20for%20application%20of%20accredited%20persons.doc