Stove Isolator position

[ians]

Let me get some popcorn and beer ... this is getting interesting.

You live and learn ... my understanding has always been that a hob is unit dropped into a fixed counter top and under counter or eye level oven is fitted into a fixed cupboard ... in the past instead of installing 6 mm wire with a 40 amp breaker ... for a hob/eye level oven ... we would use a 4 mm wire and install a 30 amp breaker for each unit.

If the gas hob/electric oven has a standard 16 amp plug top ... firstly the warranty would fall away if you cut the plug off. If the manufacturer designs the appliance to be plugged into the wall why would you change the manufactures specs

Why are the units not being fitted with the new 164-2 type plug top?

[ians]

If you fit the isolator above the hob ... what happens if there is a fire on the hob? maybe the reg should change to 200 mm and not above the hob ... same with a DB ... why would you allow a DB above a stove even if it is IP 44 rated.

the last time I forgot the popcorn on the stove during one of these long threads ... by the time I got back to the kitchen the flame was already touching the ceiling ... lucky I had a fire bucket full of sand next to the stove .. .from the last time I forgot about the popcorn.

[GCE]

This is interesting.


The above regulation (9) only comes into play when the gas hob and electric oven are 2 seperate units. The oven must then conform to the regulations for electric ovens which requires that it has to have an isolator. The gas hob can however still be plugged into a socket outlet by means of the 3 pin plug provided.

Derlyn

A stove does not have to have an isolator if it is under 16Amps according to Electrical Regulations

6.16.3.2 Cooking appliance circuits
6.16.3.2.1 A dedicated circuit(s) shall be provided for cooking appliance(s)
that are rated at more than 16 A.

[Derlyn]

This has been educational for me as I also was not 100% sure of all the regs regarding gas free standing stoves and gas hobs.

Thanks to GCE's original question which started this thread, I can now say with confidence that I now know what's cutting.

So, to answer GCE's original question.

I note from the photo that the gas stove is a free standing unit incorporating an electric oven. It would have been supplied with a plugtop so the solution would be to blank off that isolator with a metal blanking plate and plug the unit into a socket outlet. Problem solved.

I also agree that only cooking appliances rated at more than 16A need dedicated cooking circuits with isolators. That takes care of all the 2 plate hotplates, countertop mini ovens, microwave ovens etc.

Learn't a lot from this thread.

Have a good day

Derlyn

[ACEsterhuizen]

SANS 10087-1:2013 Ed6

9 Electrical equipment and other sources of ignition
Where electrical equipment is placed within the safety distance as specified in figures 3, 4 and 6
such equipment shall be in accordance with the requirements of SANS 10108.

Electrical equipment, such as light switches and plugs, shall be at least 200 mm away from any
burner and potential point of gas release.

Where it is necessary to install a gas hob together with an
electric oven, a three-point plug socket shall not be used to connect the electric oven. A proper
isolator switch shall be in place above the level of the hob and it shall have at least 200 mm
clearance from the hob.

No electrical connection shall be made below the hob. See figures 3 and 4 for further connections.

No logic in this (in bold.) when, right there AT the burner, A PIECE ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT IS ALREADY INSTALLED RIGHT BY THE BURNER, AND USED TO IGNITE THE GAS RIGHT THERE AT THE BURNER. (IGNITER)

An electrical connection IS ALREADY MADE RIGHT UNDER THE HOB, WHERE THE CABTYRE ENTERS THE OVEN FROM THE PLUG TO BE CONNECTYED ON THE TERMINALS OF THE OVEN.


(my gas installer agrees, its a joke.)

[GCE]

I note from the photo that the gas stove is a free standing unit incorporating an electric oven. It would have been supplied with a plugtop so the solution would be to blank off that isolator with a metal blanking plate and plug the unit into a socket outlet. Problem solved.


Derlyn

Unfortunately the gas guys will not be able to issue a gas COC as the oven may not be plugged in - The gas regulations do not differentiate between freestanding , built in or below 16Amp

[GCE]

My original question was

Is the electrical contractors certificate valid ?

When he signed off there was no gas stove present ( or going to be removed. The new owner has bought a new gas stove) and he therefore did not need to look at the gas regulations as required under ED 3 even though the house was built around 2005 before any reference was made to gas regulations and he ensured that the installation is reasonable safe as required .

[Derlyn]

Then the manufacturers of gas stoves should be taken to task for supplying them with a lead which has a plugtop.

I always look at 4 things when in doubt.
1. Sans 10142 regs
2. Local Authority regs
3. OHSA
4. Manufacturer's specifications and instructions.

If the manufacturer supplies the appliance with a plugtop then I see it as an instruction by the manufacturer that the appliance is made to be plugged in and an instruction to do so. This I confirmed by chatting to a couple of gas installers.

I thought I knew what was cutting, but it seems not.

If the new owner or gas installer dont approve of the position of the isolator, I suggest he buy an electric stove instead.

Popcorn finished yet, Ians ? 😁😁

Derlyn

[ians]

I would agree the electrical certificate is valid.

[ians]

My free standing gas stove has a socket outlet and a glass lid ... I blanked off the plug above the stove because I thought you could have a socket outlet above the stove ... so if I understand this correctly I can use the socket outlet provided it 200 mm away form the burner ... the wife is going to be happy that she is back to 17 socket outlets in her kitchen instead of 16

[ians]

I have a site where I installed a socket outlet below the hob a couple years ago ... best I be fixing it ... there is a 6 mm wire from the stove isolator in the cupboard ... pity I cant cut the plug top off ... fit a junction box and connect the wire from the ignitor and oven.

This is were SABS regulations and importing and selling without authorisation comes into play.

If you make rules they should apply to every aspect ... the appliance ... the electrical installation ... and any other industry affected by the rules ... including imports and manufacturing.

[Derlyn]

Would my setup pass a gas COC ?

Derlyn

[ians]

All this talk about stove isolators ... imagine that 2 ovens to install tomorrow

[Firepool]

We do fair bit of compliance and have this issue at request of gas guy along with switchless plugs in cupboard etc.We normally blank off the stove isolater and hope that the board is in the same room and make sure the oven circuit is labeled.What am I missing? We never had any comebacks and we wont go chopping tiles etc.We have moved the isolater with a wonder box and trunking but would not chase ever.If you had to quote on that people would get second quotes.

[Dave A]

If you fit the isolator above the hob ... what happens if there is a fire on the hob?

Just to point out that a fire on the hob is usually a fat or oil fire. Switching off the isolator doesn't solve the problem.

maybe the reg should change to 200 mm and not above the hob ... same with a DB ... why would you allow a DB above a stove even if it is IP 44 rated.

I tend to agree with you, but I shudder at the consequences when it comes to implementation. Imagine trying to differentiate when the installation was put that way, or whether the installation electrician or the person that hooked up the cooking appliance is responsible for the transgression of code.