Notification of potential a danger

[ians]

Email to - muni@elec.wonderland.gov.za

Notification of a potential danger

To: The electricity supplier

From: Joe Soap

During an inspection in terms of SANS 10142-1, the wiring of premises - Part 1
Low voltage installations, performed at address:

101 Soap city
happy place
101810

Owner contact details ... 067 10810 001

I, James Bond, Registration no. 007

found the following potential danger :

Loop impedance test result - 12.5 ohms (L-E)

Type of supply TN-S

Date: 2/2/2022

Contact number : 012 555 6789

Hand the COC to the property owner ... and walk away.

Now it is up to the electricity department to sort out the issue ... but is it that simple.

The big question ... how do you issue a COC indicating the property is reasonably safe ... if you have just emailed the electricity supplier informing them of a potential danger?

[Justloadit]

Just a thought, I have never issued a COC and do not have the qualifications to issue one.

You were called to do a COC, you spent the time gathering the information via inspection, in your opinion the site can not be issued with a COC, so the customer does not want to pay you for your time because you have not issued a COC.
I stand to be corrected here, but, can you not issue the COC, enter all the amounts measured and calculated, and under the remarks state that the COC has failed, and list the items that are the reason for the failure. Provide the COC to the client get paid and every one is happy.

[ians]

That is what we generally do ... fill out the document and add a note ... however the installation is regarded as a potential danger if the loop impedance test result is high ... how can you issue a certificate of compliance if the installation is not safe ?

Do we issue the COC if the reading is within certain limits for example if the reading is 10 ohms ... but if it is 1000 ohms ... then you hold back the COC ?

[Dylboy]

I have seen a CoC where a fault report was made and then in section 3 it stated that the premises is a pass and generally safe with the exclusion of the fault report... now that is a massive loop hole if I ever seen one... I feel it was done so they could get paid and still try CYA....

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[Dylboy]

That is what we generally do ... fill out the document and add a note ... however the installation is regarded as a potential danger if the loop impedance test result is high ... how can you issue a certificate of compliance if the installation is not safe ?

Do we issue the COC if the reading is within certain limits for example if the reading is 10 ohms ... but if it is 1000 ohms ... then you hold back the COC ?

Ians with that we had it once and then the boss at the time said look the actual premises is safe and we did a long lead to test the earth from MP to DB and that was solid so then he passed it saying the actual installtion is fine but the Eskom side is not and that they need to notify etc.

Basically the car is road worthy but the road is full of potholes so the car (house) is safe but the road (supply)is not and there is nothing you can do to fix road

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[ians]

WOW ... thats all I can say ... not too many things impress me lately.

I emailed the notification ... within a couple of minutes an email was returned notifying me that the email address had changed and my email was forwarded to the correct email address.

A couple minutes later ... the customer received an SMS notifying him of the fault reported and that it would be attended to within 48 hours.

Within 48 hours a trucked pulled up outside the customers property ... a women stepped out with a duspol tester and a loop impedance tester ... she opened the meter box took a reading confirmed there was a problem ... did a few tests on the cabling at the top of the pole ... cut and connected a a couple wires ... did another test ... gave me the thumbs up ... I tested at the meter ... 0.6 ohms ... she then got down the ladder ... went to the meter box ... did a few tests and acknowledged problem solved.

If I was still doing streetlighting/line work for the council ... I would have offered her a job before she left site.

Well done ... I am going to send an email to her boss.

[Derlyn]

WOW ... thats all I can say ... not too many things impress me lately.

I emailed the notification ... within a couple of minutes an email was returned notifying me that the email address had changed and my email was forwarded to the correct email address.

A couple minutes later ... the customer received an SMS notifying him of the fault reported and that it would be attended to within 48 hours.

Within 48 hours a trucked pulled up outside the customers property ... a women stepped out with a duspol tester and a loop impedance tester ... she opened the meter box took a reading confirmed there was a problem ... did a few tests on the cabling at the top of the pole ... cut and connected a a couple wires ... did another test ... gave me the thumbs up ... I tested at the meter ... 0.6 ohms ... she then got down the ladder ... went to the meter box ... did a few tests and acknowledged problem solved.

If I was still doing streetlighting/line work for the council ... I would have offered her a job before she left site.

Well done ... I am going to send an email to her boss.

Here in our valley there's a lady called Kathryn who works for the Munic.
Whenever we need the Munic's assistance and Kathryn responds, I am a happy chappie.
Not only because she's a woman but because of her efficiency and expertise. Beats most of her male counterparts by a mile.

Peace out .. Derek Stuart.

[Dave A]

...I, James Bond, Registration no. 007

found the following potential danger :

Loop impedance test result - 12.5 ohms (L-E)

Type of supply TN-S

...

Hand the COC to the property owner ... and walk away.

Now it is up to the electricity department to sort out the issue ... but is it that simple.

The big question ... how do you issue a COC indicating the property is reasonably safe ... if you have just emailed the electricity supplier informing them of a potential danger?

As I understand it (based on a couple of enquires to ECA SA over the years), the COC must not be issued while the earth loop impedance is out of permissible range.

Ians with that we had it once and then the boss at the time said look the actual premises is safe and we did a long lead to test the earth from MP to DB and that was solid so then he passed it saying the actual installtion is fine but the Eskom side is not and that they need to notify etc.

Basically the car is road worthy but the road is full of potholes so the car (house) is safe but the road (supply)is not and there is nothing you can do to fix road

The above post did get me rereading 9.3 of the Electrical Installation Regulations though:

If at any time prior to the issuing of a certificate of compliance any fault or defect is detected in any part of the electrical installation, the registered person shall refuse to issue such certificate until that fault or defect has been rectified:

I suggest that while the fault is outside of the electrical installation (being in the supply), it is detectable from within the electrical installation.

Not so much a comparison between car condition and that of the road and more like car condition and the condition of the fuel.

[Dylboy]

Ah yes good point with being detected within the premises... so then I make you right as the car and fuel... intresting point.



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[ians]

the solution seems simple ... if the supplier doent respond to your request and the COC is required just bridge the neutral and earth at the meter ... the only difference is the council bridge it on the pole or in the CDU. making it simple for them to remove once they attend to the problem.

[Dave A]

the solution seems simple ... if the supplier doent respond to your request and the COC is required just bridge the neutral and earth at the meter ... the only difference is the council bridge it on the pole or in the CDU. making it simple for them to remove once they attend to the problem.

And describe the supply as TN-C-S on the COC issued?

[ians]

And describe the supply as TN-C-S on the COC issued?

I asking myself the same question when I watched them bridging the neutral and earth on the cable feeding the house.

I asked this question a while back when I noticed people removing the earth wire on top of the bare over head lines on the road ... the response from the council .... we dont need it.

[Dylboy]

That is a good point to just make your own TNC-S... I believe that is what they do or at least done is just go there and do that join and leave.

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[Derlyn]

In ALL domestic installations in our valley, tge neutral and earth is connected together at the meter.

Peace out .. Derek Stuart.

[skatingsparks]

WOW ... thats all I can say ... not too many things impress me lately.

I emailed the notification ... within a couple of minutes an email was returned notifying me that the email address had changed and my email was forwarded to the correct email address.

A couple minutes later ... the customer received an SMS notifying him of the fault reported and that it would be attended to within 48 hours.

Within 48 hours a trucked pulled up outside the customers property ... a women stepped out with a duspol tester and a loop impedance tester ... she opened the meter box took a reading confirmed there was a problem ... did a few tests on the cabling at the top of the pole ... cut and connected a a couple wires ... did another test ... gave me the thumbs up ... I tested at the meter ... 0.6 ohms ... she then got down the ladder ... went to the meter box ... did a few tests and acknowledged problem solved.

If I was still doing streetlighting/line work for the council ... I would have offered her a job before she left site.

Well done ... I am going to send an email to her boss.

You cannot be based in Joburg if this was your experience.....

There is no way this can happen in Joburg.... Just no way.

The concept of earth is lost here. Nearly every domestic I go to there isn't one (usually aTN-S system but bad readings)