HOw much for a COC

[ians]

What do you do ... you contact an electrical contractor and ask "how much to do a COC" and that is where the fight starts.

For F%^&& sakes people ... can who ever is responsible for "educating the public on the correct procedure get off your lazy A$$ and go do your job" ... the same tunes plays every day.

"The electrician is trying to rip me off ... he quoted R650 to do a COC and now now wants R10 000 to fix a long list of faults "

My advise ... tell him to go screw himself ... if he quoted R650 for a COC ... he must product a COC for R650 ... its that simple.

Until people start doing it right ... I dont feel sorry for electricians who offer to product a COC for R650 or R1500 ... I tell my customers to tell the fool go fly a kite.

If you are that stupid that you to do a COC for R1500 without first offering to carry out an inspection report ... I will see you in court with my customer.


The procedure is simple ... when a customer calls and requests a COC ... advise the customer that an inspection report is required first ... if the house passes the inspection report then issue the COC ... it is impossible to carry a inspection report and issue a COC for R650 ... somebody is either cutting corners which will make you as the seller look stupid or expect a long fault list to make up the real money

However another thing to take into consideration ... an inspector tests a property and writes ... no earth of light fitting ... incorrect wire size ... exposed wiring ... etc etc.

I get the report in the mail box ... I contacted the customer and informed him that an inspection report is required and this is how much it will cost ... the customer indicated that the list was the inspection report ... well sorry for you ... there is nothing I can do with a silly list which doesnt identify the location nor the regulation pointing out why it is unsafe.

Dont let these useless twits who call themselves electrical inspectors try make a quick buck.

We all know customers are are not aware of the pirates skimming the industry with R650-R1500 inspections ...knowing that the money will be made creating a long list of faults for silly things ... with a pathetic report which means nothing to anyone else.

My customers are getting smart ... they dont authourise the transfer until the COC is produced and checked. Most of my customers pay me to go and check the property once the COC is issued ... within a half and hour I am in and out.

We cant another plumbing/electrical company doing favours for a friend again.

FOr some people it is a life time investment ... dont be a fool.

[ians]

while I am on a roll ... just because an electrician installs a socket outlet and issues a COC for the work carried out ... its doesnt mean he is now responsible for the entire property electrical installation.

Just because an electrician does a few odd jobs your property doesnt mean he is now responsible for a COC for the entire property ... when you decide to sell.

If you buy a property and the COC is not legit and you choose not to get a real inspection report and COC ... dont expect the electrician who does a couple odd jobs around the property to issue a COC when you decide to sell.

If you are an electrical contractor and cant even do the job right on the property you are renting ... dont bullshyte the inspector that you will remove your crappy workmanship (feel sorry for your customers) when you leave ... your day will come.

[markthespark]

Ha ha I feel your pain but I think you preaching to the converted. This needs to be on an estate agents forum or a home sellers forum.

[Dave A]

My customers are getting smart ... they dont authourise the transfer until the COC is produced and checked. Most of my customers pay me to go and check the property once the COC is issued ... within a half and hour I am in and out.

And what do you charge for that?

[ians]

It depends (not R650) ... in most cases there is a report attached to the visit ... then another visit and maybe even another visit ... until it is right.

[ians]

So we have another situation yesterday ... the customer contacts a company offering to issue a COC ... they agree on a fee ... no mention of an inspection report is discussed ... the inspector arrives on site carries out ... wait for it ... yip you guessed it right ... and "inspection report" ... he leaves and no COC is issued ... why because the inspection report has a long list of faults ... so instead of getting a COC for the price discussed ... the customer ends up with a quote and long list of faults with no reference to any codes nor a detailed list of the locations etc ... just " light exposed wires" and so forth ... but the fight didnt start there ...but it is coming ... grab another beer .

So the customer contacts me and requests a second opinion and a quote to correct the illegal parts of the installation mentioned in the quote ... there was no discussion about fees for an inspection report and now he cant issue a COC ... instead we did another inspection report and the list is even longer than the first list because we did it properly ... we took the DB cover off and used a tester to get test results ... but havent repaired all the issues ... only the ones list on the quote ... so I cant issue the COC ... unless I repair all the faults.

The customer is now prepared to pay the inspector and requested the COC be issued before he will make payment ... because the information listed on the quote is complete ... but now the inspector wants to charge the customer for a reinspection.

As a registered electrical contractor with a master electrician red card ... I have completed the work and tested my work to verify that it is correct and issued an invoice for the work carried out ... but the inspector insists that he must carry out another inspection report ... which he never issued because the house was not up to standard but offered the customer a COC for the amount discussed on the phone ... which he now wants.

I am waiting for the COC so that I can attach my comments pictures and test results ... with regards to the other issue with the installation ... which would make his COC a fraudulant document.

Time for a captains and coke ... to much work stuff for a weekend.

[ians]

The way to fix this industry is every inspection report should be loaded to a database in the cloud which is accessible to everyone and all inspection reports and COC's should be recorded live with time and location stamped ... that way when super sparkie is sitting in his office creating COC's by the dozen its is recorded.

There should also be a open source centre for all inspectors to query any confusion they might have ... which can be discussed in the open and a solution to the problem recorded so that in the future the inspector doesnt have some other bright spark trying to tell a customer that his installation is illegal .. just because he feels it is wrong ... without any reference to the code.

All material should also be open source not restricted to one organisation ... just because people choose not to join an association ... there should be no discrimination ... the ECA or ECB choose to offer online certificates because that is the new requirement everyone should have access to the documents.

[Derlyn]

Time for a captains and coke ....

Rather make that a self brewed and distilled corn whiskey ( ujssm ) and leave the coke.

Peace out ... Derek

[skatingsparks]

I just don't touch that kind of work. I don't sign off someone elses work, don't sign an existing installation - only sign of my new installation work.

Not worth the hassel.

I condemned a building once (ceiling grid was live, no earth leakage on sockets, no incoming earth from municipality, numerous open ends) and was out by 9 in the morning. Someone else did a COC for it by 2 in the afternoon and I didn't get paid for my time as I was the one apparently "bul^$!&*(@*g" the client.

Also try and avoid domestics as the work in the newer properties is usually crap. Even in high end domestics - looked at a job in Melrose arch recently 9 bar flat - can only assume the electrician that wired guessed to make it work. So many random connections, so many spare cables in the switch boxes. Complete mess.

Seems to be spreading to commercial stuff more these days as well. Someone wired a compressor with 2.5mm 3 core cab tye (3 phase compressor) over a 100 meter long run on a 50 amp breaker and that was just the start of it.

Nah. I'll leave that CoC work for someone else - not worth the trouble.

[Derlyn]

I just don't touch that kind of work. I don't sign off someone elses work, don't sign an existing installation - only sign of my new installation work.

Not worth the hassel.

I condemned a building once (ceiling grid was live, no earth leakage on sockets, no incoming earth from municipality, numerous open ends) and was out by 9 in the morning. Someone else did a COC for it by 2 in the afternoon and I didn't get paid for my time as I was the one apparently "bul^$!&*(@*g" the client.

Also try and avoid domestics as the work in the newer properties is usually crap. Even in high end domestics - looked at a job in Melrose arch recently 9 bar flat - can only assume the electrician that wired guessed to make it work. So many random connections, so many spare cables in the switch boxes. Complete mess.

Seems to be spreading to commercial stuff more these days as well. Someone wired a compressor with 2.5mm 3 core cab tye (3 phase compressor) over a 100 meter long run on a 50 amp breaker and that was just the start of it.

Nah. I'll leave that CoC work for someone else - not worth the trouble.

Morning brother

No incoming earth from Municipality should not be a problem.
Here in East London, there are whole suburbs where no Municipal earth is supplied ( 2 wire overhead supply )
We hit in an earth spike, do an earth loop impedance test and away you go.

Peace out .. Derek

[skatingsparks]

Morning brother

No incoming earth from Municipality should not be a problem.
Here in East London, there are whole suburbs where no Municipal earth is supplied ( 2 wire overhead supply )
We hit in an earth spike, do an earth loop impedance test and away you go.

Peace out .. Derek

It was TN-S Earthing system - just another poor joint in the road. I could see the feeder cabinet (open) and test was good there. I get it a lot in Joburg.

Poor standard or work by the guys on the municipality side. Especially in Rose bank area. Last 3 properties I went to (including some large commercial instals) no incoming earth. Get them out - not connected at pole, bad joint - usual....

Anyway I just don't trust earth spikes.... Its like the drum disk of the brake world - old way of doing it.

If have a R10 million house with TT earthing it feels like putting drum disks on a Ferrari. Bit.... rubbish.

[ians]

Social media is such a powerful tool ... it should be used to fix the industries problem ... it we dont do it nobody will.

In saying that ... sometime just talking to the right person can make a huge impact on the results of problem.

We need to start helping the ones who want help and scratching out the ones who are an embarrassment to the industry.

I dont believe every electrician and every inspectors goes out day by day trying to destroy this industry ... some just need a little guidance.

I am a master electrician and been hands on in this industry for many many years ... the list of projects I have been involved in range from installing a single socket outlet in a house to massive project like Alusaf ... RBM ... COC's in hospitals ... theatres ... sugar mills ... spray booths ... panel design and automation ... safety systems for machines ... you name it ... I can even think of all the projects I have done there are so many ... I have worked all over SA and neighbouring countries.

But let me tell you a little secret ... the more I learn the more I realise how little I know ... we all make mistakes and nobody knows everything ... but we need to at try make it right ... dont let the almighty rand control your life and dont let people bully you in making bad decisions.

Some mornings I wake up and realise I have forgotten something silly like a plastic bag on a PEC ... what I do is go back and make it right.

Running a small electrical business is not an easy task ... and as you grow ... the challenge just grows with you ... the overheads get out of hand ... your commitment to your staff and making sure they have work is a huge challenge ... come end of the year ... leave pay and bonuses turn into sleepless nights.

My point ... we have enough challenges in this industry dont be the Ahole who makes it more difficult for the rest of us.

[ians]

Lets fix this industry ... lets get this COC story right.

Make the public aware of the procedure ...

It is simple ... you want to sell your house ?

You need a inspection report first ... what is the cost to carry out an inspection report ... number of DB's ... number of points etc ... make sure the customer is aware that the inspection report is not a COC.

A report and quote is submitted for any repairs ... correctly laid out with SANS regulation violations and detailed locations of the equipment which requires attention.

If not then the cost to issue a COC document is R XXX ... the public must be made aware of the procedure.

The problem with the industry has a lot to do with the lack of understanding of how the inspection report system works ... once they understand a central data base should be setup with every single COC issue can be viewed.

[Firepool]

Lets fix this industry ... lets get this COC story right.

Make the public aware of the procedure ...

It is simple ... you want to sell your house ?

You need a inspection report first ... what is the cost to carry out an inspection report ... number of DB's ... number of points etc ... make sure the customer is aware that the inspection report is not a COC.

A report and quote is submitted for any repairs ... correctly laid out with SANS regulation violations and detailed locations of the equipment which requires attention.

If not then the cost to issue a COC document is R XXX ... the public must be made aware of the procedure.

The problem with the industry has a lot to do with the lack of understanding of how the inspection report system works ... once they understand a central data base should be setup with every single COC issue can be viewed.

And all debatable issues with an industry resolution.How many cables in a gland? When must geyser be on earth leakage etc etc

[Derlyn]

@firepool

If you have a copy of SANS 10142-1 you will read that ALL water heating devices must be on earth leakage. When the regs say all, it means all.
No debate needed.

Cable glands are manufactured for a specific cable.
No debate needed.

I've learn't not to listen to what your buddies say. Rather just follow the regs.

When I say regs, ..... I mean the following

a. SANS 10142-1
b. Occupational health and safety act, 1993 Electrical Installation Regulations
c. Component manufacturer specifications
d. By laws of the electrical supplier ( Munic or Eskom )

If you follow the above, you can't go wrong.

Peace out .. Derek