The Electrical Certificate of Compliance explained

[Thembadl]

Morning
I just registered Ugu Electrical. As I am still new in the field, I would like to start small as I don't have expensive tools, transport (to carry ladders) and manpower.
I am also looking at services that will not cost the customer much while building client base.
Do I need to complete COC for things like timers(geyser timer), down lights, ceiling fan and the like? If so, do I complete everything and replace the existing COC?

[Rifrug]

COC re-issue

Thank you for your reply @ mygoggie.
“The problem you have is you need to prove nothing changed in the 5 years. To what are you going to compare it so that you can prove nothing has changed?”
The request for the re-issue of the COC is just the admin part but will not entail any work to the installation. there were information on the COC not filled at the time such as:
1. Box not ticked - initial certificate.
2. Stand number not filled in.
3. My signature was incorrectly signed at section 5.5.
4. The KA rating of the breaker was left out although it was written on my additional pages for reference.
If I re-issue it, I will keep the dates from 2014, and state on the new COC that it is only a corrected copy of the original COC from 2014. I did discuss this with the involved consulting engineer of the project of that time. He seems to be ok with it as he will also have to sign the design section of this copy COC.
Any thoughts on that?

[SeanM]

Morning

In the OHS act it stipulates, " Any person who undertakes to do electrical installation work shall ensure that a valid certificate of compliance is issued for that work".

There is your answer in short.

The customer needs to be informed of this as the cost may change with this in mind i.e: you are asked to install a geyser timer and find the geyser not to be on an earth leakage.

Another important aspect is that the installation you are working on needs to have an initial COC as you can only issue a supplementary COC on the back of this or else you need to do a COC for the whole installation.

[Rifrug]

Thank you @mygoggie for your valuable reply.
The request from the client was only to re-issue a corrected copy of the 2014 COC. Everything including the dates will be 2014 only the information as below needs to be added.
1. Box not ticked - initial
2. Stand number not filled in.
3. KA rating not filled in for main switch - although it is recorded on the additional pages that was added.
4.Than section 5.5 was incorrectly filled in as I should of not filled that in. It is only for more than 5 installations.
What your feeling on this?

[Sparks]

@Rifrug, the COC has already expired so technically you are late issuing a correction. Should it transpire that a claim was lodged for damages within the valid period for loss suffered, for whatever reason, your correction will prove that your COC was invalid, by your own admission, and you are liable and exposing yourself to legal proceedings. By admitting your fault after the expiry you are also exposing yourself to action from DOL. Your COC was invalid therefore you should expect repercussions. To provide a correction or not is an ethical decision. You were at fault.

[Dave A]

@Rifrug, the COC has already expired ...

I'm pretty curious as to to how you arrived at that conclusion.

[Rifrug]

@Sparks I gave the client the corrected copy a week ago. The COC do not expire, it is valid for as long as the owner do not sell the building or make changes to the original installation. I know I was at fault in 2014 when I issued the COC with errors on it, but this client is also one of my biggest clients and I do work for them all over the country. They appreciated my commitment to back up my service, They actually awarded me with more work and COC’s after the re-issue. They also advised me that I wasn't the only contractor who had errors on my COC’s but about 95% of all their COC are with errors. Some other contractors has told them to bug**r off when they asked for re-issue of COC’s.

[ians]

@Sparks I gave the client the corrected copy a week ago. The COC do not expire, it is valid for as long as the owner do not sell the building or make changes to the original installation. I know I was at fault in 2014 when I issued the COC with errors on it, but this client is also one of my biggest clients and I do work for them all over the country. They appreciated my commitment to back up my service, They actually awarded me with more work and COC’s after the re-issue. They also advised me that I wasn't the only contractor who had errors on my COC’s but about 95% of all their COC are with errors. Some other contractors has told them to bug**r off when they asked for re-issue of COC’s.

A COC is not only valid until the owner makes changes to the original electrical installation... this seems to be one one of the biggest myths with regards to issuing COC's.

The COC is valid until someone carries out a full inspection report on the entire electrical installation and issues a new COC for the entire electrical installation... which must include every components mentioned in the original COC... otherwise that part which is excluded even if is just one socket outlet... is still valid until the property is sold (i think it is after 2 years...someone will correct me if i am wrong) or the new COC for the "entire electrical installation" is issued.

I am experiencing this exact problem right now with an installation electrician who issued a COC on the 15 November 2019... When i contacted him to inform him that his COC is not done correctly and he must return to the site and retest the building and fix "ALL" the parts which do not comply with the regulations... his response... "Someone else is replacing lights...so his COC is no longer valid" ...well i have news for him... firstly i am the person who is busy replacing 18 metal light fittings in a public place... not one is earthed ...ie no continuity test was carried out... he has since returned and earthed the balance of the 47 lights not earthed... however the twin+ e feeding the outside spotlights ...cannot be powered with exposed to UV light twin+E ...and the exposed joints with insulation tape are certainly not legal..etc etc etc.

secondly ...even though i have replaced 18 light fittings ...i dont have to issue a part COC ...nor is his COC no longer valid... his COC even though it is illegal will still be used as the original COC... i will be issuing a part COC which will be attached to his original COC which will only cover the new socket outlets which i install... this is where the challenge begins... if his COC is not valid ...how can i issue a part COC.

My point is ...His COC will always be the original COC and doest go away if i work on the building or 50 other electricians... i just add to his COC...but his original COC will still be the orginal COC and he is still responsible for the parts mentioned in his COC.

This is why it is so important that you as an electrical contractor ...make sure that all your customers have a valid COC BEFORE you start working on the site ...otherwise you become liable for everything and you cant issue a part COC for just the work you carry out... you then become responsible the entire installation... people have this thing they say...but as "qualified installation/master electrician ...you should know better" beware.

Unfortunately at the end of the day ...if it takes 10 people sitting in an office... weeks to renew your registration ...how on this earth are you going to get anyone to actually get off their a$$ and go out and check on issued COC's... someone would have to actually be skilled in the industry and know what they are doing... maybe its not that they are just too lazy ...it could be that they just dont have the qualification or experience to perform the task.

[Sparks]

It appears terminology has created some confusion. A COC will not "expire" Where a "valid" COC is not in place and an installation is altered or added to, a "new" "valid" COC must be issued for the entire installation. Where a "valid" COC exists, the contractor must issue a "supplementary" COC for the work he has done. A COC is "valid" for 2 years only. This is irrespective of whether the property has changed hands or not. Previously a COC was "valid" until change of ownership, this is no longer the case. Over a number of years during which a few alterations/additions were done, the homeowner must have in his possession the original COC as well as a supplementary COC for each alteration/addition and when required re-certification of the portions of the installation which require "valid" certification(uncertified in the past 2 years).

[Derlyn]

A COC is "valid" for 2 years only.

Hi Sparks

Is it possible to refer us to the particular legislation that states that a COC is valid for only 2 years.

The only legislation that I am aware of is the OHS Act that states in 7(5) that the user or lessor may not allow a change of ownership if the COC is older than 2 years.

The Act, however, does not state that a COC is only valid for 2 years.

I stand to be corrected.

Cheers and peace out

Derek

[Sparks]

*

A specific period of validity is also contained in the new regulations. Regulation 7. (5) states that the user or lessor (owner) may not allow a change of ownership if the certificate of compliance is older than two years. This indirectly states that the COC is no longer valid after 2 years, other than being a record of the existing installation at that point in time.

[Derlyn]

*

A specific period of validity is also contained in the new regulations. Regulation 7. (5) states that the user or lessor (owner) may not allow a change of ownership if the certificate of compliance is older than two years. This indirectly states that the COC is no longer valid after 2 years, other than being a record of the existing installation at that point in time.

Hi Sparks

The reason I asked was that according to the technical advisor ECA(SA) Kwazulu-Natal Region, Mr Teshent Sookdeo, when asked how long a COC is valid for, responded and I quote

" An Electrical Certificate of Compliance (COC) is valid indefinitely for the installation it has been issued for provided that the electrical installation has not been altered in any way. Thus, maintenance items and changes and alterations are excluded. However, it is important to note that when a property gets sold, an electrical certificate can only be tranferred if the certificate is less than two years old. 16th Jan 2018. Unquote "

See "https://ecasa.co.za/technical/answering-the-questions-that-contractors-ask-frequently/


This is how I always understood it to be.

Cheers and peace out

Derek

[Gamatwp]

Good evening all, I have a Coc related question... not sure if this is the right thread.

I will be issuing my 1st Coc for an installation of a prepaid meter Base and wanted to know:

If section 2 and 4 needs to be filled in?

Thanks in advance

[Leecatt]

Don't forget to take into account section 9.2.(c).(i) of the Electrical Installation Regulations when issuing a supplementary certificate.


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[Derlyn]

Don't forget to take into account section 9.2.(c).(i) of the Electrical Installation Regulations when issuing a supplementary certificate.


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Hello brother

Could you maybe inform us what section 9.2.(c).(i) says.

SANS 10142-1 edition 2 ends at 8.7


Cheers and peace out

Derek