COC filled in example

**Houses4Rent** · 25-Mar-14, 10:17 PM

I have no industry knowledge, but I always maintained that the COC is in most cases not worth the paper its printed on.

**mikilianis** · 26-Mar-14, 08:41 AM

Houses4Rent I wont start but I assume to you "cheapest" is best,and corners are there for cutting

**Houses4Rent** · 26-Mar-14, 09:22 AM

Hi mikilianes

Not at all. I just think that many certificates are not done properly and the layman like me never knows. I saw a few when buying my 6 properties and soemtimes even when my clienst buy and I had a hinch that they were all not that well. But since the regulations change so often they expire shortly thereafter anyway.

I only have one personal experience. I had an small extension built by an informal builder and needed an COC. Real simple a few sockets and 3 light points. The one electrician said instatllation was not done correctly and this and that needs to be done. The next electrician issued the COC without hesitation. So who is right and who is worng? I wil probaby never know, but as long as I have the COC I did my duty. And yes, I know it can only be issued by people with the right wireman qualification, not any electrician.

**ELECT 1** · 26-Mar-14, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Houses4Rent

Hi mikilianes

Not at all. I just think that many certificates are not done properly and the layman like me never knows. I saw a few when buying my 6 properties and soemtimes even when my clienst buy and I had a hinch that they were all not that well. But since the regulations change so often they expire shortly thereafter anyway.

I only have one personal experience. I had an small extension built by an informal builder and needed an COC. Real simple a few sockets and 3 light points. The one electrician said instatllation was not done correctly and this and that needs to be done. The next electrician issued the COC without hesitation. So who is right and who is worng? I wil probaby never know, but as long as I have the

COC I did my duty. And yes, I know it can only be issued by people with the right wireman qualification, not any electrician.

I hate to tell you, that you as the property owner are liable for your property. You got to make sure that the COC that you are given is not a fraudulent one , because if your house burns down the insurance might say that your installation didnt comply and we will only pay out X instead of Y. You will then have to sort it out with the guy that certified your property, even to take him to court..
Its not as easy as you think.
Small stuff can be rectified relatively inexpensively, but larger stuff can really hurt one pocket.

A valueless piece of paper is just that.
But you aren't on your own, thousands of people are in the same boat.

**Justloadit** · 26-Mar-14, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by ELECT 1

But you aren't on your own, thousands of people are in the same boat.

They said that the Titanic could not sink, it took a lot of souls with. The fact that we are all on the same boat does not make it go away.

**ELECT 1** · 26-Mar-14, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Justloadit

They said that the Titanic could not sink, it took a lot of souls with. The fact that we are all on the same boat does not make it go away.

Cant argue with your statement.

I have always said, this certificate of compliance should have been discussed with all the roll players.
But the powers that be just went a head , discussed it with their mates , and now look what we sit with.

The installation either complies, or doesn't. But most use the criteria is it reasonably safe. This is open to many different opinions, and can be manipulated to suit ones needs........
My rant now over

**Houses4Rent** · 26-Mar-14, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by ELECT 1

I hate to tell you, that you as the property owner are liable for your property. You got to make sure that the COC that you are given is not a fraudulent one

I have no problems that is my property and I am responsible to the best of my ability. And I think most people have no idea that not any sparky can issue a COC. So I a might be already light years ahead. However, how is Joe Blogs supposed to recognize a fraudulent COC then? One can take a good lock, maybe check out whether the issuer is registered and authorised at a push, but anything beyond that is unreasonable to expect. After all a so call professional has be hired to do professional work. One cannot be expected to know everything and to verify everything.

If I but a property I believe the onus to make sure all is above board before transfer is the sellers.

If I go to a bank and get cash out of their hands I have reasnable expectations that I do not get false notes from them. Would you not?

**ELECT 1** · 27-Mar-14, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by Houses4Rent

I have no problems that is my property and I am responsible to the best of my ability. And I think most people have no idea that not any sparky can issue a COC. So I a might be already light years ahead. However, how is Joe Blogs supposed to recognize a fraudulent COC then? One can take a good lock, maybe check out whether the issuer is registered and authorised at a push, but anything beyond that is unreasonable to expect. After all a so call professional has be hired to do professional work. One cannot be expected to know everything and to verify everything.

If I but a property I believe the onus to make sure all is above board before transfer is the sellers.

If I go to a bank and get cash out of their hands I have reasnable expectations that I do not get false notes from them. Would you not?

Like the way you think

**Dave A** · 30-Mar-14, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by ELECT 1

I hate to tell you, that you as the property owner are liable for your property. You got to make sure that the COC that you are given is not a fraudulent one , because...

Originally posted by Houses4Rent

I have no problems that is my property and I am responsible to the best of my ability. And I think most people have no idea that not any sparky can issue a COC. So I a might be already light years ahead. However, how is Joe Blogs supposed to recognize a fraudulent COC then?

Even EThekwini municipality doesn't believe it has a responsibility to ensure that the COC submitted to connect a new electrical installation isn't fraudulent; or even check that it's properly filled out judging by the one case I've had a look at during last week.

**skatingsparks** · 30-Mar-14, 08:41 PM

Its the old problem that most people don't know (and generally don't care) if its done properly. I recently quoted on a job which had 50 plus DB boards over 400 circuit breakers and I would estimate 2500 points. Now even if you allow conservative 30 minutes a circuit, to find it test all the points on it (30 x 400), to write down the results and fill in the alllll that paper work your looking at about 4 weeks (5 days a week, 9 hours a day), and that is even a conservative estimate because its not a standard install, its really complex with UPS boards, generator boards, normal supplies and even a solar array to deal with, in a working building. A licensed electrician an assistant for a month is expensive. Or they could get some dude who will walk through the building counting the points and maybe doing a earth fault loop test here and there and they can crash it out in a 3 days (takes a long time even to bulls^%$ that many test results and fill in COC's).

I don't think there is enough space on COC's for all the things you should be testing. Yes you can add extra sheets but on the yellow form itself there is only one little box for 'resistance of earth continuity conductor' One little box for operation earth leakage (there could be quite a few, especially in a 3 phase board with socket circuit spread over 3 phases).

I think you should be made to put your test results down then that would cover everyone. I can say "The day I tested it it was this value", and using some basic maths you should be able to calculate if its right if ever a problem arose. You would be signing for all the test results not just the few that get squeezed into the boxes on the COC. If a COC was ever contested you could do the test again and compare the results to what are on the test results issued with the COC. Yes voltages fluctuate a little but earth continuity won't change to much.

Just an idea....

**Sparks** · 10-Apr-14, 02:41 AM

VIVA new SA, no more onbudsman, just DIY and some sod will pay you to do his house because you cheaper than the rest, VIVA new SA

**ians** · 10-Apr-14, 08:35 AM

If only someone who knew what they where doing could design a COC for the industry and have a document for each industry, domestic, commercial and another for industrial. A basic computerised document which has add ons for industry specific and additional equipment DBs etc.

**ians** · 10-Apr-14, 08:40 AM

Dave they do check the COCs, well enough said. I witnessed a contractor who forgot to fill in the test results, while waiting for something to get sorted out. The fella went to the counter filled it in and handed in again. Lekker when you know what the results "should" be

**skatingsparks** · 15-Apr-14, 07:34 AM

Just write down ALL test results. Yes people will say "that will take ages" but if your testing like you are supposed to be then yes it takes ages. That's why it costs, you pay for someone time to do it properly and with a full set of test results signed off, you are accountable and the electrician is covered, assuming he hasn't made them up. If he made them up and there is problem he has those signed off/made up (delete applicable) to come to back to which will either burying him(if he made them up) or cover him (if they were tested the right way).

Have folders full of scribbled down test results in my own test sheet which I have kept just in case. The info you put on the COC is not enough. You just put in the worst case scenario for earth continuity? What good is that. If there was ever any dispute I don't think you would remember at what point you tested for that single number. Also with Eskom messing around with things I have had an incoming earth vanish after they dug up the road to connect a new supply and didn't reconnect properly. Careful what you sign people.... It's like signing a document when all the terms and conditions are not checked.

COC filled in example

COC filled in example

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