Writing COC

[Yuri]

Can you write a COC if you are just a instillation electrician or do i have to be a registered electrical contractor?

[Leecatt]

Can you write a COC if you are just a instillation electrician or do i have to be a registered electrical contractor?

Good day Yuri
You need to be a registered electrical contractor
The electrical regulations states
9. (1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance.

[ians]

You can register as a single phase tester, installation electrician or a master electrician, depending on you level of qualification and experience, there are threads on the forum which cover this information. You dont have to be a registered "electrical contractor" to be a registered person, however if you want to sign over COCs you would need to be employed by a registered electrical company or own a company which is registered with the ECB and others.

[Leecatt]

You can register as a single phase tester, installation electrician or a master electrician, depending on you level of qualification and experience, there are threads on the forum which cover this information. You dont have to be a registered "electrical contractor" to be a registered person, however if you want to sign over COCs you would need to be employed by a registered electrical company or own a company which is registered with the ECB and others.

Thanks for clearing that up.
What is the difference between a registered person and a registered electrical contractor
Thanks

[Yuri]

I am a registered installation electrician
My one friend is doing telecommunications work for vodacom and he is struggling to get COC ( vadacom only allow working on there systems at 22:00 ) so he asked me to help
I work in a factory. Do you think i can let him register his company as a electrical contractor company and put me up as the regestered person?

[Dave A]

however if you want to sign over COCs you would need to be employed by a registered electrical company or own a company which is registered with the ECB and others.

That'll be the Department of Labour from now on, although the ECB and some AIA's seem to offer 3rd party assistance.

What is the difference between a registered person and a registered electrical contractor.

The registered electrical contractor is the legal entity that contracts with clients - and can be a juristic person (as in my case where the company contracts with the client).

The registered person is the individual registered as the single phase tester, installation electrician or master electrician of the electrical contractor. Every registered electrical contractor must have at least one registered person (either as an employee or as a "working employer"), and where there are more than one registered persons in the employ of the contractor, one must be designated as the primary registered person.

I am a registered installation electrician
My one friend is doing telecommunications work for vodacom and he is struggling to get COC ( vadacom only allow working on there systems at 22:00 ) so he asked me to help
I work in a factory. Do you think i can let him register his company as a electrical contractor company and put me up as the regestered person?

This would be contrary to Clause 35(2) of the collective agreement which is as follows:

No employee whilst in the employ of an employer shall solicit, undertake or perform any work other than on behalf of his own employer in the Electrical Industry, whether for remuneration or not, during or outside of the ordinary hours of work or working days prescribed in clause 7 of this Agreement, save that such employee may carry out work on his own premises outside of normal working hours.

PJ's may be hard to trace, but becoming the registered person for a contractor would be very traceable.

[Yuri]

That'll be the Department of Labour from now on, although the ECB and some AIA's seem to offer 3rd party assistance.


The registered electrical contractor is the legal entity that contracts with clients - and can be a juristic person (as in my case where the company contracts with the client).

The registered person is the individual registered as the single phase tester, installation electrician or master electrician of the electrical contractor. Every registered electrical contractor must have at least one registered person (either as an employee or as a "working employer"), and where there are more than one registered persons in the employ of the contractor, one must be designated as the primary registered person.



This would be contrary to Clause 35(2) of the collective agreement which is as follows:

No employee whilst in the employ of an employer shall solicit, undertake or perform any work other than on behalf of his own employer in the Electrical Industry, whether for remuneration or not, during or outside of the ordinary hours of work or working days prescribed in clause 7 of this Agreement, save that such employee may carry out work on his own premises outside of normal working hours.

PJ's may be hard to trace, but becoming the registered person for a contractor would be very traceable.

I have dun my specialized instolation rules and n6...
All i need is my 1 year hazardous location experience ( there are ex locations in the factory ) and 2 years experiance of installation electrician so thy will track me easy

[Pieter00]

Hi guys, can any one advice me on the following: a coc is to be issued for any alteration I do to an installation if there is a coc already done for the hole house but what if the owner can't find that coc any more? Do I tell him I cant give him a coc for the alteration and say that a coc has to be done for the whole house? and what if he has the coc but it differs from how the installation looks now, thus making that coc null & void and then a coc must be done for the whole installation and include the alteration on it? should he refuse, I can do a coc on the alteration only and have him sign that he is aware of the installation not being up to standards and is aware that he is held responsible for the wiring on his premises according to the OSH Act?

Any advice will be much appreciated thanx!

[Leecatt]

Hi guys, can any one advice me on the following: a coc is to be issued for any alteration I do to an installation if there is a coc already done for the hole house but what if the owner can't find that coc any more? Do I tell him I cant give him a coc for the alteration and say that a coc has to be done for the whole house? and what if he has the coc but it differs from how the installation looks now, thus making that coc null & void and then a coc must be done for the whole installation and include the alteration on it? should he refuse, I can do a coc on the alteration only and have him sign that he is aware of the installation not being up to standards and is aware that he is held responsible for the wiring on his premises according to the OSH Act?

Any advice will be much appreciated thanx!

Interesting question. Lets tear it apart and revisit it from all angles.
I am going to refer to The OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY ACT, 1993 ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION REGULATIONS promulgated on 6th march 2009.
The regulations are available freely on the net so I have attached them for convenience.

Firstly lets assume the plans for the original installation were submitted and accepted prior to 23rd October 1992:
Prior to this date there would not be any requirement for an electrical certificate on the existing electrical installation, provided there was no change of ownership after 1 March 1994.
The regulations 7 part 3, would require that once the additions had been effected then a certificate would be required for the original installation as well as the additions, simple enough.

Next lets assume the plans for the original installation were submitted and accepted after 23rd October 1992.
Section 7 part 1, indicates that a valid certificate is required for the electrical installation and the user, or lessor shall be in possession of the certificate at all times. It therefore stands to reason that if the original certificate is lost then it must be replaced.

Furthermore, section 9 part 2 (c) of the regulations, states that an electrical certificate cannot be issued for any additions or alterations to an existing electrical installation unless the existing installation has been;
1./ declared reasonably safe in the case of an installation that existed prior to 23rd October 1992 and a certificate issued or
2./ certified to comply with the electrical regulations in force at the time of its erection and a certificate issued.
So even if a certificate did exist the remainder of the electrical installation has to be inspected and certified.

In short, yes you have the authority to see the original certificate and investigate its compliance, or issue a new one.
No you may not issue a certificate for the additions unless the original installation has been ruled reasonably safe or certified to comply with the SANS 10142-1:2009.

I hope this helps.

[Pieter00]

Thank you for the info, but what if the owner doesn't want a coc for the whole house and just wants it for the alteration. Because my friend who's also an installation electrician for a company had to issue 23 coc's for 23 prepaid meters he installed and asked the owners if they had coc's for the houses as it didn't look very good inside the db's. They replied yes but don't know where it is so he issued the coc's for the prepaid meters only from the point of supply to point of control. I told him to get it in writing as the owner is responsible for the wiring according to the Act and an anexture K should be issued to her and a copy given to the electrical inspector in kzn to do inspection which he hasn't done and now his worried something goes wrong and he gets the trouble. What can he do to cover himself?

Doesn't a letter stating that the owner has been notified in writing and sighned by the owner remove the liability side from us? For example the owner gives you white surfex to run on the wall for a light but it's not UV protected, black surfex would be the right choice according to the regulations, so the owner says i must use the white and she sigenes my annexture stating that I've told her it's not according to standard and that the owner takes responsibility for it. I won't issue a coc for it but i also can't be held liable cause of that annexture?

[Pieter00]

Am i correct to say that: if an original coc does excist for the installation and any alterations occurred after it was issued, a coc has to be done for the whole installation and include all the alterations in it as the original coc would have no value due to the alteration that wasn't mentioned on it?

Am i correct in saying that if the original coc is of no value, a new coc must be done for the whole electrical installation before a coc can be done for a specific circuit that was altered andif the owner doesn't want a new coc cause it costs to much to fix the mistakes it must be put in writing that he is liable for it, thus meaning you can't give him a coc for the altered circuit you worked on?

[Leecatt]

Am i correct to say that: if an original coc does excist for the installation and any alterations occurred after it was issued, a coc has to be done for the whole installation and include all the alterations in it as the original coc would have no value due to the alteration that wasn't mentioned on it?

Am i correct in saying that if the original coc is of no value, a new coc must be done for the whole electrical installation before a coc can be done for a specific circuit that was altered andif the owner doesn't want a new coc cause it costs to much to fix the mistakes it must be put in writing that he is liable for it, thus meaning you can't give him a coc for the altered circuit you worked on?

The bottom line is that the entire installation must be covered by a coc, or collection of related coc's, whether the owner wants it or not, for reasons which I mentioned in my previous post.
The owner cannot issue a letter claiming responsibility, it would not hold up in a court of law in my opinion.
If you believe the installation to be a danger then you must disconnect it and inform your area authorities of this action.
The regulations are extremely clear on this.

[ians]

Beware of customers who have a plug installed and request a COC, sometimes they do this to get a COC then use it to sell the house, because the person receiving the COC during the sale doesn't know how to identify if the COC is filled out correctly or even if the COC valid.

I have noticed that the municipalities are getting wise, the last COC I handed in was checked by one of their technical staff before they would accept it, it is about time. Another contractor handing in his COC had to take it back because the values in section 4 were not filled in, makes you wonder.

[Leecatt]

Beware of customers who have a plug installed and request a COC, sometimes they do this to get a COC then use it to sell the house, because the person receiving the COC during the sale doesn't know how to identify if the COC is filled out correctly or even if the COC valid.

I have noticed that the municipalities are getting wise, the last COC I handed in was checked by one of their technical staff before they would accept it, it is about time. Another contractor handing in his COC had to take it back because the values in section 4 were not filled in, makes you wonder.

The following clause in the Regulations should counter this problem.

9.................
(2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that;
(a) a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or
(b) an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
(c) an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that
(i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe.

[ians]

The clause means nothing to a clerk sitting in a office receiving COCs for transfers, so long as it is yellow and has X amount of pages they don't know the difference.

The electrical contractor is aware of the clauses and regulations (well some of them) but once handed to the customer, who knows what the customer might use it for, just tooo many loop holes in the system.