File sharing, is it just plain piracy?

[SilverNodashi]

File Sharing is not piracy! File Sharing is merely a tool, or "vehicle" to make pirating music / DVD's / software / etc easier.

By killing / stopping / banning file sharing, you're not going to treat the problem, but simply get the pirates to get other ways of doing it. Piracy has been running since the old BB's and newsgroups and they still use those tools as well.

[tec0]

The truth is “it is never the tools” but it is who uses the tools. See file sharing is as old as the first network and files can be anything. Fact is some people just want to communicate and share their findings others use it for profit and other more damaging content.

These are the facts and like it or not. I will not say P2P is a good thing because it is simply not a good system. There are too many abusers and “bad content” to call it good. The fact is P2P was designed to be anonymous and almost untraceable.

Still, P2P as a tool is not illegal... but as a tool it can be abused.

[AndyD]

The fact is P2P was designed to be anonymous and almost untraceable.

The bittorrent protocol is not anonymous. Without getting too technical, the nature of how it works means ipaddresses of peers are resolved. Even using the encryption options built into most torrent clients ipaddresses are easily harvestable by doing nothing more than taking the .torrent file and joining the swarm with a standard torrent client such as utorrent or vuse.

As far as I can see the only possible way to use torrents anonymously would be to run a VPN but it would probably be at the expense of speed. Maybe the TOR network might help but I'm not sure if they allow bittorrent protocol traffic or not.

[tec0]

Well, the fact is your ISP knows exactly what you do and when you do it. They know what you watch and what you search for. They know what webs you access and they will even call your mom if you use b**b!e.

Ok... ok... they will not call your mom when you log on to b**b!e but I imagine they will very soon. The fact is the internet is killing itself by taking away anonymity and they give stalkers a wonderful new tool to abuse...

So nothing is private anymore and we are at the mercy of supper hackers that will wipe your electronic existence from the net and make it impossible for you to live and then make a 15 minute HD video clip where you are sitting helplessly on the streets begging for money. Then they will use pigeons “that is proven to be faster than Telkom’s digital lines” to forward there Data along with their personal bragging rights.

All this while the big bad internet lawmen is tracking down and imprisoning children for downloading a new song from a P2P network. Then good old mom and dad will sit with a heavy lawyer bill and a criminal for a child.

The point I am making here is we the citizens of the internet is under a heavy attack and belief it or not we are losing it. So spend the money get the legal stuff at the shop and keep your nose clean. That is basically all we can do.

In the end of the day when enough children is in jail and enough people are so angry a massif consumer strike will hit these blood sucking companies and they will lose so much money that they will have to renegotiate.

There is always the odd chance that people might stand together and say enough is enough.

[AndyD]

You're right that ISP's know what their customers are up to but if I wanted to hide my internet activities from my ISP I could, it's just more trouble than it's worth if you aren't trying to hide anything. Even if I was doing something illegal I have a right to privacy, I would only expect my ISP to hand out any personal details or usage logs if there was a court order presented to them.

There is always the odd chance that people might stand together and say enough is enough.

Given by the massive number of normal people involved maybe file sharing is exactly that, people saying 'enough is enough'. Maybe it's protest at the inflated prices of movies, music and (some) software. Maybe it's protest at the lack of fair use tolerated by the courts when it comes to copyright cases. 'Fair use is a right granted to the public on all copyrighted work. Fair use rights take precedence over the author's interest.'

[twinscythe12332]

speaking of torrents and the like, take a look at

http://www.mininova.org

It used to have an absolute ton of stuff. now it too has had a leash put on it by the authorities.

[tec0]

The responsible thing to do is always get originals where and when possible. I too hate the fact that we have to pay so much money for the stuff we enjoy but sadly the system is structured that way. Personally I only keep with originals because people haven’t learnt to negotiate with big companies yet.

If and when they do, file sharing can become legal and even profitable. See I myself would like it if it was possible to buy songs over the net without a bloody Credit-Card! Not only will I not have to wait 4 to 12 weeks for my music but I will buy more music because it would have been easy.

Secondly, it would still be legal. So if it was I and I wanted to protect P2P “for whatever reason” Organise a consumer strike of note and force negotiations. Explore with what is possible and then just maybe there is an opportunity to make things better.

[twinscythe12332]

I've moved into getting my games original recently. I used to get my games at lans and such, but I'm cutting that down in favour of getting originals.
The thing that gets my blood boiling is when these massive music and game studios start talking about how piracy is "killing their ability to create games/reducing sales". Last time I checked you're still making a massive profit off the rest of us with your pricing schemes, and the ferrarri is still parked outside your mansion.

I'd love to buy(and download) stuff online, but considering the price I'd have to pay per meg, it'll cost me as much as the song they're selling, and more for a game. The model may work in countries with high speed uncapped internet connectivity, but it's a different story over here.

Going with what tec0 is saying, how is this for an idea. A D0wnl0ad bar. This would be a central point with a high speed uncapped connection. You would walk in, possibly be given a tablet PC or sit down at a computer. you search for what you want, and add it to a download basket. You choose how it will be stored (DVD and CD will be available at the store, or you could bring in your own memory stick that would be wiped clean before use), and then go to the front counter like you would at any music store. The cashier takes your money/ swipes your debit card/ swipes your credit card, and you're given a ticket with a time on it. come back at that time, everything is done and placed onto your preffered storage medium, and you're happy.

[tec0]

I totally agree with this idea, and it will work because you will be able to pay cash... and I think that is the main thing “cash”. The second fact we as South Africans face is that not all of us are running around with an internationally recognised credit-card. This will be a good way to get internet commercialisation a fresh new income and it will still be legal.

Secondly, I think there will not be such a thing like “sorry sir we don’t have stock” This will be a wonderful and very powerful sales system with almost endless applications. It will give the virtual world a physical presence and as I stated before it will allow a new form of cash flow.

If the companies in question will allow this there will be a few new marketing opportunities and best of all you can get what you want when you wanted. A lot of people are into other types of music that is not available here. This medium will provide a marketing strategy as well as advertisement. The possibility would be endless.

Nice one!!

[twinscythe12332]

The beauty behind this would be that you do not need a major capital investment. you need the high speed connection, some computers, somewhere to set up shop and perhaps a few on hand assistants. Because everything will be downloaded for the customer, there isn't a need for stock and stock counts.

But here are the pitfalls:
Returns cannot happen. How can you return something that could have already been removed from the medium?
Depending on how much a person wants to download, it may take a day or two. is that person willing to wait?

I like the idea of being able to download one song off of an album rather than buying the entire album, especially when it's one of these three CD monsters that the ministry of sound likes to put out.
I also like the idea of setting users up on different stores so they can personally track what they have had downloaded (and thus prove they have the rights).

[AndyD]

I like the idea for all the reason above. If you can listen before you commit to buying then a returns policy wouldn't be necessary.

Unfortunately the realist in me doesn't see it happening. The successful artists can make lots of money but by far the biggest earner in the music industry is the distributors. With the kind of model discussed above there will be no more CD or DVD disks and the distribution can be done by the artists themselves either individually or in groups. I don't see SonyBMG et al taking this lying down.

[tec0]

The truth is why giving the customer what they want? See the point is that most artist and entertainment companies will not comply and rather put children in prison then to lose money. And I will say this over and over again it is about the money... always about the money...

See you need to give the above mentioned a reason to consider digital media as a legit form of income. How? With a simple consumer strike. Stop going to the movies. Stop buying DVD or CD. Stop buying games. Just simply stop... Then you give it a year and trust me after a year of not selling a product a lot of companies will be willing to listen because they are the once losing.

All I am saying is give them a reason to listen.

[Dave A]

If it's controllable and they're still getting their royalties it stands a chance. Look at the Nokia with music package I'm seeing advertised. It has to be legit.

[twinscythe12332]

The truth is why giving the customer what they want? See the point is that most artist and entertainment companies will not comply and rather put children in prison then to lose money. And I will say this over and over again it is about the money... always about the money...

See you need to give the above mentioned a reason to consider digital media as a legit form of income. How? With a simple consumer strike. Stop going to the movies. Stop buying DVD or CD. Stop buying games. Just simply stop... Then you give it a year and trust me after a year of not selling a product a lot of companies will be willing to listen because they are the once losing.

All I am saying is give them a reason to listen.

America's war on terror is likelier to end before everyone goes on a massive consumer strike. Nobody wants to forego their luxuries.

[tec0]

Nokia with music is a legit system; however it might be a bit expensive. Still it is a step in the right direction. Right now, companies are claiming to lose millions because of “downloads”. I don’t care if this is correct or not because in the end these companies could have made it more legit and more accessible to download contend.

Still they would rather scare people and force people to do it their way! And I think this is why there is this resistance and why more and more people are downloading stuff. Face it these big companies want to stay in control and they have enlisted the help of politicians to do their bidding.

See companies that act like this has only one thing in mind. Do it our way or get nicked. However don’t be fooled P2P file sharing might be dead "for now" but as it is the internet’s nature “it will find another more secure less visible way” Why, because you will always get those who will resist! Make no mistake P2P is here to stay.

Still I would rather just buy stuff until others realise that “sacrifices need to be made” so that systems can change.