Internet and Marketing Your Business

[BusNavig8]

I was shocked to find that if you market a business opportunity on the internet and someone pays you via an EFT and something goes wroung then you can be prosecuted under a 419 scam.

How many people market legitimate businesses on the internet. How much is paid via Paypal or EFT's etc daily?

I certainly will cover myself and my business so tightly after finding out this.

[JohnSilver]

Where did you see this?

[Dave A]

You've got me curious too. Nothing to do with this problem, perhaps?

[BusFact]

I have my doubts.

In SA you don't get prosecuted "under a 419 scam" (Thats a section of a Nigerian Act), but would rather be prosecuted for fraud.

Perhaps a lot depends on what is meant by "something going wrong", but generally speaking I think it osunds like your source is care mongering.

[BusNavig8]

Well its true and I have a SAPS case number for it and it is prosecuted in this country - its just used as it is a gererally accepted name. My point was that the SAPS treats as a CRIMINAL offence someone that merely ADVERTISES an opportunity on the net and if you make a payment in consequence of that advert and pay for it electronically using an internet medium. My point being further that one needs to protect oneself from people one does business with where you are a legitimate business advertising on the net and someone pays you and your contract was not tight and all they have to do is lay a charge against you -- that was the shocker for me as a business owner who uses the net. I was requested to make an additional statement as to why I considered the transaction I entered into fraudulent in order for it to be investigated as internet fraud. So doubts or not it DID happen and it happened personally to me. I considered it just a matter of run of the mill Fraud but clearly the SAPS dont.

[JohnSilver]

sounds fishy to me. Just about every business who advertise on the internet will accept EFT as form of payment.

[Justloadit]

How else do you accept payment?

[BusFact]

Well its true and I have a SAPS case number for it and it is prosecuted in this country - its just used as it is a gererally accepted name. My point was that the SAPS treats as a CRIMINAL offence someone that merely ADVERTISES an opportunity on the net and if you make a payment in consequence of that advert and pay for it electronically using an internet medium. My point being further that one needs to protect oneself from people one does business with where you are a legitimate business advertising on the net and someone pays you and your contract was not tight and all they have to do is lay a charge against you -- that was the shocker for me as a business owner who uses the net. I was requested to make an additional statement as to why I considered the transaction I entered into fraudulent in order for it to be investigated as internet fraud. So doubts or not it DID happen and it happened personally to me. I considered it just a matter of run of the mill Fraud but clearly the SAPS dont.

Sorry Busavig8, but I can't quite figure out the various roles in the story above.

- If you advertise a fraudulent scam, then yes it probably will be seen as criminal activity.
- It does of course largely depend on who received the funds from the EFT and why.
- I can't quite figure out who ended up with the money, who lost money, who had laid charges and who has had charges laid against them.

I think there is more to your particular case than normal EFT transactions. Referring to your original post, the nature of the "business opportunity" and what went "wrong" are most likely crucial to why a CAS was opened in this particular instance. I'm guessing this was not a common business transaction.

Also keep in mind that not all CAS numbers end up being prosecuted. A CAS number is generated when someone complains to the cops and does some paperwork about it. It is the reviewed by detectives and possibly later the prosecutor. Only once these more experienced people have had a look at the docket, might they prosecute. Otherwise they can close the CAS due to lack of evidence.

[Dave A]

Busfact makes a lot of sense, but it wouldn't hurt for the police to vigorously rattle people's cages when they don't deliver, though.

Bear in mind there have been quite a few stories of people selling stuff over the internet and it turns out it was a fraud. About time the police took it seriously.

[BusNavig8]

Sorry Busavig8, but I can't quite figure out the various roles in the story above.

- If you advertise a fraudulent scam, then yes it probably will be seen as criminal activity.
- It does of course largely depend on who received the funds from the EFT and why.
- I can't quite figure out who ended up with the money, who lost money, who had laid charges and who has had charges laid against them.

I think there is more to your particular case than normal EFT transactions. Referring to your original post, the nature of the "business opportunity" and what went "wrong" are most likely crucial to why a CAS was opened in this particular instance. I'm guessing this was not a common business transaction.

Also keep in mind that not all CAS numbers end up being prosecuted. A CAS number is generated when someone complains to the cops and does some paperwork about it. It is the reviewed by detectives and possibly later the prosecutor. Only once these more experienced people have had a look at the docket, might they prosecute. Otherwise they can close the CAS due to lack of evidence.

This was not actually what my point was but anyway. I was looking for an addon for our BIzopp and came accross a financial product that would assist startups and would fit nicely into what we were attempting to achieve. We contacted the person in the add and received further information. A lot of correspondence went back and forth and they said they they were "going with someone else" so we said fine and left it at that. Sometime later we received a call to say they were not working out and were we still interested, so we aksed what was on the table. We got to the point of receiving the contract signed by both parties with the agreed funds and paid the amount by EFT. They then attempted to obtain a further amount of R450K from us and our Bizopp which we refused to give. After which we only received one promise after another then another then another. We put them on terms and demanded the return of our funds - all quiet. I am a strategist by nature and I needed to receive two outcomes - 1 the return of my funds and 2. that no one else suffer the same fate.

So ...

I am not sure where you live but this is how it works where I live:

I live in a nature conservancy. The only crime here is Poaching and Mozambique citizens crossing over the border into SA and invading our "Town". The SAPS cover a huge outspread area. We live 60km(return) from the SAPS and 90 (one way) from the Magistrates Court. There is no way I am about to spend the emotional energy, time and costs on something that would amount to nothing.

I went into the SAPS in order to ascertain a) whether I actually had a case b) what the charge would be and c) what documentation would be required and I had emails to burn

They do not take cases where there arent any. The Detective I spoke to was not sure either so he contacted the CO and I spoke to him, and he advised the Station what was required. (by the way as I was leaving the army brought in +-40 people who I thought were visitors as the cells can take up to 175 prisioners only to be told they had been caught crossing the border illegally - have you any idea the paperwork and costs of charging them and deporting them are)

I returned the following day with the required information

I was then contacted to submit an additional statement.

So in my case its not about merely getting a CAS number and thats where it ends. Further Internet issues always have a papertrail.

Hence my point beware how you advertise on the net. We have change the word "opportunity" to "System" due to the knowledge I now have and our Bizopp is totally legitimate. The problem is, that all it takes is a clever scammer to take you out just the same way in which we were and I became acutey aware of this when this happened to us. We had a contract, financial service records the works, proof of systems. I dont know if it fits into the definition of a scam. all I do know is that I was intentionally and wilfully let to believe a set of facts existed when they did not and suffered financial loss as a result. I could have lost my entire business concept had I not been astute. I suppose there are business risks and then there are business risks!

[BusFact]

Busfact makes a lot of sense, but it wouldn't hurt for the police to vigorously rattle people's cages when they don't deliver, though.

Bear in mind there have been quite a few stories of people selling stuff over the internet and it turns out it was a fraud. About time the police took it seriously.

The problem is that "non delivery" can often be a civil issue. In most cases I would imagine its rather poor service or quality of product that are the real issues. If no delivery of a product takes place, then it would indeed be nice if we had the option to pursue a criminal case. I think the reality though is that the cops want to avoid having to resolve every business transaction dispute.

If its a clear and definite case of fraud, then the police will deal with it. Just manage your expectations of the time frame of the investigation.

[BusFact]

@BusNavig8 - Ok, it seems I got the wrong end of the stick from your original post. It seemed to me that someone was prosecuting you for fraud because they paid you by EFT and the something went wrong.

How may I ask does changing the term from "Opportunity" to "System" make things different? Or does it simply not attract scammers as much?

You say "all I do know is that I was intentionally and wilfully let to believe a set of facts existed when they did not and suffered financial loss as a result" and to me that sounds exactly like fraud, so good luck with the SAPS CAS. At least you seem to understand that this can be a tedious process. It will stand you in good stead for all the frustrations that are to follow.

[JohnSilver]

I am still unclear about this. Is it against the law to advertise on your website that you accept EFT payments?

[BusNavig8]

I am still unclear about this. Is it against the law to advertise on your website that you accept EFT payments?

Of Course you can, just make sure that what you advertise you do! and of course you can accept EFT payments!

[BusFact]

I'm with you JohnSilver, I was also confused initially. The EFT payment is actually of no consequence and should be replaced by "made a payment" in general. The issue was actually around what service was done or not done and how this compared to promises made in the advert.