Useless, expensive online advertising

[Dave A]

Maybe I'm getting to cynical about online advertising nowadays. But when you've been around the net a bit and got a site that relies on advertising to cover the bills, I can't help being fairly critical when I'm approached to advertise on a website.

So I thought it might be useful and therapeutic to launch something the exact opposite of Powerful, affordable advertising rather than wreck Norio's fine thread by venting off there.

Today I get approached by a new website for dentists. What this website does is solve a dilemma for dentists in that they aren't allowed to advertise (BS - sorry, did I sneeze).

For the bargain price of R300.00 per month I get to be one of only 5 electrical contracting companies in Durban that will be allowed to advertise on this website. I get a whole page to myself to promote my service, and I can load 3 photos. Best of all, I can expect every dentist in Durban and surrounding areas to fall over themselves to use my services because of my fine contribution.

The deal for dentists, I hear you ak? You guessed it - they need to pay to be on the site too. Not a deal breaker yet - let's look at this fine site.

Google it - nothing. Google hasn't found it yet.
Type in the URL. There's this empty site. Pardon me for not posting a link, but there is nothing to see other than a homepage outline that says "content coming soon."

Maybe one day this site might be worth spending R300 a month on - but that day isn't today, or this month. Probably not even this year.

[Alvin]

What's this website, Dave?

[Dave A]

sadentalonline dot com
Try clicking a button...

My point in raising this is do some research and think for yourself a bit before you fall some marketing spin.

[SilverNodashi]

So Dave, how did you hear about this website, and what benefits do you get (according to their sales rep?) for the R300?

[Dave A]

They called - telesales. Quite a strong pitch, too.

I then got a follow-up email too. Here's a taste:

ADVANTAGES OF ADVERTISING WITH SAdentalOnline.com

1. Full Page Advertisement (not alongside any other advertisers).
2. Allow dentists to locate your business on the SA Map and access your information 24/7, 365 days a year.
3. Targeted Advertising- Reach all Dental Professionals on this website specifically designed for them.
4. Get exclusive advertising space! - Be one of only five selected service providers for the Electricians category in your city.
5. Fully Tax deductible expenditure for your business.
6. Free fax to email.
7. Get the best value for your advertising investment!

DISADVANTAGES OF NOT ADVERTISING:

1. We are concerned that your current clients may potentially be attracted to other electricians that are already advertising with us.
2. You’ll be missing out on the only detailed/comprehensive South African Business Directory specifically directed to this select market.

I just love the free fax-to-email throw-in

SoftDux - you're in the hosting game. Let's put this in perspective.
Roughly how much is monthly hosting for a small site with sitebuilder functionality? Better give local and off-shore hosting price options.

[wynn]

What should an advert cost PM? how big?
I am interested because I have to pitch a few prospects in the near future and have no idea of charges.

[Morticia]

But wait, there's more........

[Alvin]

Hosting is about R60 pm with all the bells & whistles

[Alvin]

What's actually quite freaky is:

1. "Targeted Advertising" - What the bleep would a dentist need with an electrician on a site that's designed for them. Does each industry now have their own comprehensive yellow pages?

2. Don't you think they should've put some content on the site before approaching potential advertisers (at least some affiliate banners)

3. I think they forgot to hyperlink their buttons, and search fascility, and registration form, and......

R300 A MONTH!!!!???? Great ROI that would be for you Dave. :-)

[Dave A]

Talking of yellowpages - when yellowpages tried to sell me a listing on their yellowpages.co.za, after I did the analysis I pointed out that they should be paying me, not the other way round. Now, a bit less than a year later...

[Norri]

And it's not just small web sites that Google hasn't found that are absolutely pointless to advertise on. Try these on for size...

- Ananzi.co.za
- Webmail.co.za
- BrabysMaps.co.za

All 3 of which fall under Brabys, all 3 target SMEs, all 3 are complete rip-offs. I've had personal experience with Ananzi. They sell you like crazy and simply don't perform. These days I try 1-3 months MAX and then renew if it's working.

[Dave A]

I'm scrambling around to find a survey of online advertising rates. I'm sure I originally found it via one of Ann Williams' B2B newsletters, but it's eluding me right now

Frustrating, because it was quite enlightening. I vaguely recall sites like My ADSL and M&G getting something like 10c per impression for a banner ad, but it could have been 50c per just as easily. I found a rate of R700 per week for MyADSL, but that didn't mention the specifics - it'll either be for a specific forum or for a number of impressions over a week.

What affects rates is not so much size. It's location, impressions, targetability and uniques.

Uniques are particularly interesting. 500 uniques a day might sound like good coverage, but it isn't as simple as that. 500 uniques a day is only 500 uniques a month too if it is the same 500 people every day

When it comes to advertising rates here, I'm essentially in an auction situation by using Google. I looked at pay-per-click yields and converted that to a pay-per-view bid. On average, it must cost about 4c per banner impression to advertise here at the moment if my maths is right. However, there are big fluctuations. There is a location on the left hand side of some pages that would run at about 80c per impression.

[derrickm]

Seems to me the way to do this is something along these lines:

1. Build a working website

2. Add 5 potential advertisers in each category - just business name and phone number, perhaps

3. Get lots of dentists to use the site, for free

4. Once the site has plenty of pages indexed, and a fair amount of traffic, start approaching the potential advertisers. "Hey, we've given you a free listing on our site. If you upgrade, we'll give you a full page ad, 2 photos etc. But you get to keep the free listing anyway."

Derrick Markotter

[Alvin]

I'm scrambling around to find a survey of online advertising rates.

I operate an online business directory for South African Businesses (now bear in mind that this directory is only 4 months old). I get approximately 120 unique visitors per day, and approximately 260 visits per day. If I were to calculate my rates per view, it would look something like this:

Side banner (120 x 60) = R1600,00 per year. That's R133 per month. That's R4 per day. That's approx. R0.03 per unique view, and approx. R0.01 per view.

Top banner (468 x 60) = R2900,00 per year. That's R217 per month. That's R7 per day. That's approx. R0.06 per unique view, and approx. R0.02 per view.

My Premium Listings are R349,00 per year per category per Province. Can't tell you what the hit rate is per category, though, but this got me to thinking that I should probably put some mechanism in place to be able to track such performance per category.

I hope someone can put some other stats on this thread, so we can get a good comparison.

[Dave A]

this got me to thinking that I should probably put some mechanism in place to be able to track such performance per category.

Are you using Google Analytics?