I Hate Spam .co.za - first F.U. Award to dealaday.co.za

[daveob]

dealaday.co.za was the last straw that got stuck in my boxers and irritated the cr*p out of me !!

Local companies harvesting e-mail addresses from web sites and buying spam lists, then trying to tell you that a friend added your address to their list, just to sell you junk, just isn't on in my book !!

So I reacted in the best way I know - a new site - www.ihatespam.co.za

Please feel free to send your contributions - lets give them free publicity - but the kind that they don't want.

[daveob]

and here's another 2 spammers :

Abelusi Training Network
Dynamic Seminars

[Debbiedle]

I have a real problem with this approach! We have a huge mailing list. It has been collated and collected over years of subscriptions and telesales and cold calling and contacting etc etc. Each and every person has agreed to be mailed and yet from ONE week to the NEXT they cannot remember that they have given permission!!

It happens at least twice a week that a client emails or phones irate because he/she did NOT give permission for our mails only to turn away red faced when we prove that they did.

In the interim - a site or ISP that simply lists/blocks names without further investigation can do a lot of damage.

[Dave A]

I have to agree with Debbie entirely (that must be a first ) and would like to stress this part

In the interim - a site or ISP that simply lists/blocks names without further investigation can do a lot of damage.

Spam Assassin et al really should be checking the content of the email for an unsubscribe option for starters.

I've also just got my first email from deal a day and have unsubscribed from their mailing list. I could not be bothered asking where they got my email address from.

I'll let you know if they keep coming, because then they definitely are spammers and deserve the treatment.

[daveob]

Hi Debbie

I hear your point of view.

.... BUT ....

when I have an e-mail address on my web site ( example : international@mydomainname.co.za ) and it is never used, except being checked for incoming mail, is never used to send outgoing mail, is never quoted in any other communication, and no friends or associates know of this address, and I start getting a barrage of e-mails to this, and many other e-mail addresses ( some which don't even exist, so they arrive in my 'catch all' mailbox ) and the same thing happens for every one of 12 domains that I run starting on exactly the same day, then nobody can tell me that the addresses were not either harvested from the web, or an e-mail address list was purchased - either way, I sure as heck did not subscribe to this junk.

So, if a company wants to use these methods, then blatently lie by trying to tell me that "a friend of mine" subscribed me to their list, then SCREW THEM !!

It's about time that companies start to seriously consider the methods that they use to build their mailing lists. The amount of spam mail that is transmitted on the net each day is far in excess of the legit mails.

But I do hear your point about someone who 'forgot' that they subscribed - so how about the following : when we receive a complaint, we'll e-mail the company concerned, and give then 48 hours to come up with the proof before they are listed. I think that sounds fair.

[daveob]

I've also just got my first email from deal a day and have unsubscribed from their mailing list.

Hi Dave

But this is what gets to me - the fact that you, me or any number of others, have to physically go and unsubscribe from this junk.

It smacks of the old practices of " You've automatically been awarded free xxx cover to the value of R xxx. If you don't want this great benefit for you and your family, just send us 1024 forms ( in triplicate ) and we'll cancel it immediately. But don't worry, just relax and enjoy the xxx and we'll debit your edgars / xxx account each month -- remember those times - well, that type of practice is now illegal, so I don't see why I should have to go unsubscribe every one of my multiple domains e-mail addresses from this.

I see now that I may end up standing by myself on this fight, but fight I will.

so ...
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence
and growing strength in the air,
we shall defend our Island,
whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender.
.
.

[duncan drennan]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[Dave A]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes - quite thought provoking given some of what I'm working on at the moment. Thanks, Duncan.

when I have an e-mail address on my web site and it is never used, except being checked for incoming mail, is never used to send outgoing mail, is never quoted in any other communication, and no friends or associates know of this address, and I start getting a barrage of e-mails to this, and many other e-mail addresses ( some which don't even exist, so they arrive in my 'catch all' mailbox ) and the same thing happens for every one of 12 domains that I run starting on exactly the same day, then nobody can tell me that the addresses were not either harvested from the web, or an e-mail address list was purchased - either way, I sure as heck did not subscribe to this junk.

Collecting emails from a website is legitimate, best I know. Harvesting them using a bot crawler is illegal in a few countries, though - and also is a breach of many websites' conditions of use.

Dave (ob), I don't think you stand alone at all. To clarify that, I think the issue has two parts - where the email has been harvested and where the recipient has subscribed.

Where the email has been harvested, I support your point - the first contact email should be an invitation to subscribe (opt-in markting) rather than require the person to unsubscribe (opt-out).

[Chatmaster]

I feel very divided on this issue. Dynamic seminars are one of those that are also spamming me, but I am actually interested in what they offer, I just wish I could get them to use my correct email address instead of the one from my website that has a auto responder that constantly comes back with a error mail. Vincent also asked me to remove his email address from the Pillars of business website due to spam. Email harvesting is a real issue and really annoying.

However people do forget that they subscribe to email lists. My current database of businesses in Gauteng alone received several spam complaints, fortunately I do capture IP addresses when they subscribe, but MWeb and some other service providers do not always seem to care and simply block you upon receiving these complaints.

But if I receive another vairga (deliberately miss spelled) email I will definitely crack.

[IanF]

I have seen some websites change the email address to Ian at myco dot co dot za. This may work but won't this put off people from contacting you as they have to do more work?

[Vincent]

I hate spam just as much as the next guy, but I'd like to comment on two of the sites.

I have been to a Dynamic seminars presentation and found Brian Jude's quiet interesting. Maybe someone should contact him and explain to him what is happening, although I agree he shouldn't be spamming. I think he may be member of our chamber of Commerce, if he is I will speak to him. Previously he never used to spam, you had to register for a newsletter and then you'd get all the seminars he presented. He has more than enough people turning up to his seminars. (+/- 50 @R550/delegate) With regards to Afrihost, speak to Norri who is a member on this forum and I believe he knows the CEO of that company. He may help.

[daveob]

Hi Vincent

You're welcome to mention to those that you know about the site.

Fact is, that I made numerous attempts to contact all site owners before listing them on ihatespam.co.za

I hear that you're partially standing up for Brian Jude's character, but the fact is that if he contracts some marketing company to advertise for him, he should do sufficient homework on the source of their mailing list. As in law, ignorance is no excuse.

[Chatmaster]

I read Dr. Brain Jude's book on customer service about 6 years ago. He is by far one of the best business author's in SA. It is a pity that he must be associated with spam.

[eiledon]

Another one is Certech who are a newsletter company - they somehow got my address and seems like they sell my address in a batch that goes to all their new clients, and now and then Ill get a newsletter by one of their new clients I did not subscribe to (and would never ?!?!) advertising junk that is of no relevance to me... some of it is even offensive!
People in SA need to learn to respect peoples privacy and consider how people will react reading the junk they distribute, and the association that is made with the brand behind it.
Btw this is my first post!

[Seagyn Davis]

I have seen some websites change the email address to Ian at myco dot co dot za. This may work but won't this put off people from contacting you as they have to do more work?

It is very irritating on a customer side to have to correctly change the email address to the correct version, however this is the easiest way besides using javascript which a lot of the silly Spam Bots have figured out. I have a funny feeling that the bots now capture the (at)'s and 'dot's etc

Dynamic seminars are one of those that are also spamming me, but I am actually interested in what they offer

Unfortunately why spam will always exist. just had to!

I manage an international web server, actually 2 now, and we get bombarded with calls about spam every day. Not only does it get irritating, each and every filter we turn on puts strain on the server, so the ISP's and end consumers are effected.

We have a policy to terminate any domain that sends bulk unsolicited mails.

Also from my side, having to constantly better my newsletter designs to get through over zealous firewalls is the pain in the behind so I am totally against any form of SPAM and if I get any I add it to a few international black listing companies.

It will be a long battle which will only end when mail senders are now geographically placed. Which by the looks of things, may not be in the not so distant future.

Where the email has been harvested, I support your point - the first contact email should be an invitation to subscribe (opt-in markting) rather than require the person to unsubscribe (opt-out).

Thats a nice touch to anyone who wants to harvest email addresses.