At my wit's end... What to do about shocking client?

[Mark Atkinson]

Thanks, Murdock.

The customer and Red Giant have parted ways. We spelled the situation out to them, trying to be fair about it, and they decided to walk away. Suited us just fine. Just a little disappointing that we couldn't provide them with a logo they were happy with - we really do care that our customers are happy at the end of the day. That said, I don't think even they knew what they were looking for.

We have learned from the experience indeed. Restructured our logo pricing to avoid further disputes as far as possible.

[murdock]

i have been watching your threads and checking out your blogs and website...looks like you fellas are going places...great to see people moving up...keep up the good work.

i am one of those customers...it took me 11 years to come up with my logo...it had to be right...i just didnt know what right was...until i saw it 11 years later.

[Mark Atkinson]

Thanks so much - it really means a lot to receive positive feedback like that. Makes us even more motivated.

I guess with design sometimes it takes a while. A designer is not always going to produce the perfect logo for you first try. That's why we sell additional concepts. The problem is often clients don't understand that aspect to designing, or why costs are "high". Ah well, all in a day's work!

[IanF]

Mark
It must be a great relief that this is over. I would just watch that company to make sure they don't use the logo as they haven't paid for it.
We have found that most people know what they want so we always design around that.

[Mark Atkinson]

You're right Ian. Well if they want to go the effort to crop our watermark out and use a logo that hasn't been finalized, I'm not going to go to all the effort to try and stop them.

Most customers do know what they want. It's just in this case the customer's wants kept changing.

[Nienke]

I have a different perspective, being a difficult (or as I would like to put it, demanding) customer myself.

A happy customer is always better than an unhappy one, especially if you’re just building your name in the business. My opinion is that you should see this customer as some sort of investment, promotion if you would like (I read somewhere you’ve got a good budget for this!).

You did about 6 redesigns, which means you've invested about R1.400 in this customer so far. By the sound of it, your expected returning business will earn you way more than this. Therefore, my opinion is: Calculate your expected return on investment and see if your still breaking even and if you even can stretch this a little bit more.

Also: What is usually the case that unhappiness goes both ways and I assume your customer is not too happy either. Apparently he expected more (whether he should have or not, that’s not even the point and in the past).

The best way to get over bad feelings is to meet each other eye to eye. As we all know, communication by email is not always the best solution. I think you should think about what last offer you can make them, go over there, have a chat over a coffee, make him happy and get all the new business in!

And take this as a great learning experience: Make sure the expectations of the delivered product are the same as the delivered product!

Good luck!
(and I hope I don’t encounter your customer!)

[Mark Atkinson]

Thanks for the insight, Nienke.

You make a good point, and believe me I try to make all relationships with clients happy ones. In fact, this is the first client in 4 years where we have had a business relationship go sour. We tend to be extremely accommodating and flexible when it comes to our customers - and are generally rewarded with fantastic customer loyalty.

As somebody suggested before, it was a case of too many decision makers within the client's business. Each person has his own creative likes and dislikes and obviously they couldn't reach an agreement regarding any of the designs.

Who knows how long the alterations and work would have gone back and forward, or whether we would have actually seen any repeat business/referrals from them. All being said and done now, I am much happier that the working relationship has ended. It was just obviously one of those client-designer relationships that didn't have any synergy - and hey, that's okay. It happens. Designers can't please everyone.

I believe that had we carried on trying to please the customer despite the negative feelings that we were beginning to harbour, the relationship would have gone sour somewhere down the line anyway. You'll find that you will generally get the best work from a designer who you get along well with. A positive relationship with our clients inspires us to produce work of a higher quality. It's just how it works.

Perhaps trying to rescue the relationship with the client would have been a better option in a business where the distinguishing factors of quality service/products are a little better defined and less subjective.

It's all over now. The client is lost, we received no money, but we learned a heck of a lot in the process. That's what counts if you ask me.

[murdock]

another lesson ...never get complacent* with easy customers...becuase suddenly one day when you look again they will be gone and you wont know why...these customers become your "bread and butter" pay the bills etc...customers...these customers should be the ones you look after the most...i know for some of us these customers are no challenge so you loose sight of their input into your bussiness...but suddenly they are gone you wonder why your turnover is down.

* i dont know if that is the correct word

[Dave A]

I suspect that ordinarily most of us would agree with you, Nienke. But there were a couple of really bad signs in this case that more than a few of us seemed to recognise pretty quickly...

(and I hope I don’t encounter your customer!)

You're bound to meet one similar sooner or later. I hope when that time comes you recognise what you're dealing with quickly, before you dig the hole too deep.

[daveob]

I suspect that ordinarily most of us would agree with you, Nienke. But there were a couple of really bad signs in this case that more than a few of us seemed to recognise pretty quickly...

Problem with this type of thing, is that typically one does not want to just give up. Emotions, pride and the desire of the great end prize ( the dangled carrot ) very often clouds what should be ( and to others usually is ) very obvious, and drives us to make the wrong decision. The end result is frustration, depression, and a deep sense of time wasted that can never be recovered.

Got that T-shirt in XXXL. Paid many school fees for that training.

[mother]

You have to know where to draw the line, and it sounds to me like Mark drew the line just in time.

Yes sure, the customer is always right, but only if he is the right customer for you.

[Blurock]

I agree with Nienke. A good one-on-one can solve a lot of problems that you can not address over the phone or in e-mails. Being more personal builds confidence, even if the customer does not agree with you now. I have seen many a disgruntled customer come back once he realises that you are treating them with respect and honesty.

[watermetersupplier]

good post for negotiation. thanks a lot. i have learned from it.

[twinscythe12332]

This happens a lot in development (I used to be the unfortunate schmuck who dealt with a manager saying "yes sir" to a customer... That didn't really seem to matter when I was up until the early morning working on furthering a design that should have been finished ages ago. It's called feature creep, or scope creep... you set goals/milestones, and the customer makes changes that push the goalposts further.
It is great that you include revisions, because it is impossible to get everything right the first time. I'd say you were perfectly within your rights to cut your losses. There is a difference between a difficult customer and a customer who doesn't even know what they want.

[Modise]

Hi Mark, I now understand why you had to bend your back, but the question is how far can you really bend it before it breaks. You did so hoping to get good referals from this company but that does not mean you have to compromise your T&C's. Think of the time and resources spent just on a quote of R700. I am not an expert when it comes to designing but I want to believe that business principles apply to any kind of business, making a profit for the sustainability of the business - no matter how big or small the job is.
I know of a company that does BEE verifications and they found themselves in the similar situation. The client wanted the verifying agent to amend their T&Cs to suite the client. The verifying agent was also hoping to get more work from the clientele of their client, but they felt that amending their T&Cs for small fee they will be charging was not beneficial regardless of the potential clients they might (not guaranteed) get from their client. They felt that it was going to cost them more money to amend their T&Cs than what they will be getting from verifying this client.