Caricaturist asking your advice

[Frederico Rogeiro]

Hi, Friends!

I've been working on a collection of caricatures of great historical figures. Nelson Mandela will be a part of it.
Now, I need some feedback about the drawings and some advice about some options of the business that are still open. So, I prepared a brief presentation of the ideia, with some few direct questions about it.
For those of you who are willing to help me, here it is my caricatures presentation. It will take you just 2 or 3 minutes.

I would be most appreciated if you give me your advice!
Thank you!

[adrianh]

A couple of things -

Be careful when you do Nelson Mandela or any living person for that matter. I know that there have been many issues around people using his likeness.

I must be honest, I don't like the caricatures - they look like they are normal pictures simply stretched and compressed using computer software. But then, thats art, some like some things and some like other things.

[tec0]

If I may recommend Edgar Allan Poe to add to your collection. I had a look on your page but didn’t spot his name, sorry if I overlooked his name.

I can see this kind of art work being uses by executives, HR departments and Schools.

[Frederico Rogeiro]

Thanks for your comments.

tec0,
Edgar Alan Poe isn't in my list, but it may be in the future! Those markets you mentioned are interesting, I must try to reach them because they're small and somewhat difficult to reach.

adrianh,
Some people don't like my caricatures, I accept it naturally. But it hurts me a bit when they doubt they are handmade and are a product of Photoshop. You were not the only one. I guess I will have to live with that.

I'm sure Nelson Mandela will not be offended by being in this collection. People of that stature are used to be drawn, I guess...

[adrianh]

Hi Frederico,

The reason they looked Photoshopped is because the resemble the original pictures a tiny bit too closely:

Ludwig Van Beethoven

http://www.peopleandbiographies.com/ludwig-van-beethoven.html

Abraham Lincoln

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273560,00.html

Marie Curie

http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/women-science/women-science-01.html

Isaac Newton
http://www.photographersdirect.com/b...mageid=1909257

Raphael

http://www.studio-art-gallery.com/rec/29

[Frederico Rogeiro]

adrianh,

Obviously they look like those pictures. That's because they were based on them. They are all dead, how was I supposed to do this without looking at their pictures?

They can look photoshopped, but they are not!
As you given yourself the trouble of looking for those pictures, I will show you the sketching process of one of the figures:



These 11 sketches were the ones I made before the final drawing of Beethoven. The last one (in big) was the one I used.

[adrianh]

Fair enough, but do you think that it is enough to alter an original photo or painting a little bit and then call it your own? A bit like taking a Rolex watch, stretching its face and then selling it as your own product.

Please remember that this is not a personal attack but rather an acedemic discussion.

[AndyD]

I would agree that hand drawn caricatures are art and possibly more so that an exact replica of the person.

Fair enough, but do you think that it is enough to alter an original photo or painting a little bit and then call it your own?

Much art is just applying an existing image to canvas or paper. Portraits of living people such as the Mona Lisa or landscapes such as the Hay Wain were just the artist copying what was in front of his eyes.

The only problem I see with selling caricatures is that it's often seen as comic street art which is high on entertainment but low on cash value.

[adrianh]

Much art is just applying an existing image to canvas or paper.

This is called a photograph - You can do this very effectivly using a Roland Photoshop vinyl printer.

I am also sure that the artists would be happy to hear that they are mere reproducers of what they see.

Portraits of living people such as the Mona Lisa or landscapes such as the Hay Wain were just the artist copying what was in front of his eyes.

Ok, so if I have the Mona Lisa in front of my eyes then it is ok to make a perfect copy of the painting...

eish....

So why can't I pirate DVDs? I am only making a copy of whats in front of my eyes.

[AndyD]

Much art is just applying an existing image to canvas or paper.

This is called a photograph - You can do this very effectivly using a Roland Photoshop vinyl printer.

I am also sure that the artists would be happy to hear that they are mere reproducers of what they see.

Portraits of living people such as the Mona Lisa or landscapes such as the Hay Wain were just the artist copying what was in front of his eyes.

Ok, so if I have the Mona Lisa in front of my eyes then it is ok to make a perfect copy of the painting...

eish....

I'm talking about the Mona Lisa in person or the landscape in real life. Artists put what they see in front of them on paper or canvas. They're copying what they see. With a subject who's dead and buried, using known images of the person to create a caricature from wouldn't be plagerism if the images he's working from aren't caricatures.

So why can't I pirate DVDs? I am only making a copy of whats in front of my eyes.

I don't see your connection with this.

[adrianh]

With a subject who's dead and buried, using known images of the person to create a caricature from wouldn't be plagerism if the images he's working from aren't caricatures.

Ok, so I can take a photograph of your grandfather, distort it a bit (I'll just use Photoshop to save time) and sell it as a caricature.

The connection is that the "caricature" is an original painting / photograph that has been altered very slightly. Take a look and compare the drawings to the originals, you know, practically every single part of the original is duplicated except for the malformation of small accentuated areas. It would be the same as changing the cover of the DVD.

What is rather interesting about this discussion is that it has drifted away from what constitutes a good caracature (Look at Zapiro's work) to copyright, plagerism & piracy.

A good caricature is not dependent on an original work of art or photograph to give it credibility, it is dependent on the artists ability to accentuate a feature of the person being drawn yet leaving enough resemblance for the audience to recognize the person. Zapiro is a master at this - Zuma with his showerhead, Obama's ears, Mugabe's upper lip, Trevor Manual's nose, etc.

[tec0]

Art is an expression of something you enjoy. If you like taking a picture of anyone and change it to fit your vision then that in itself becomes an expression. It doesn’t really matter if you make a perfect copy of an old artist. If you can master the Mona Lisa and ad YOUR signature to it then you have mastered Leonardo da Vinci’s style. If you ad Leonardo da Vinci’s signature to it then you are counterfeiting with the intent to deceive.

I see nothing wrong with this work. And I hope that others will also enjoy it. I don’t much care for how it came to be. The point is it is an expression. A little something you may oneday see and smile. That is the point of art; it is to be seen and to be enjoyed.

Case and point, I have seen thousands of photos of a rose. All of them taken by a camera using chemicals in the old days, now it is digital. I still enjoy the picture. Simply because I can...

The truth is you don’t have to like everything. That is why we have a variety art, books poetry...

[adrianh]

If you like taking a picture of anyone and change it to fit your vision then that in itself becomes an expression.

Ok, I like taking pictures of world famous politicians and then changing them by taking all their clothes off and making them do strange acts with animals. (Not that I do, but this is said simply to make a point)

...you see, it's not that simple.

If you can master the Mona Lisa and ad YOUR signature to it then you have mastered Leonardo da Vinci’s style.

Thats not art, that is plagiarism. I can therefore copy a novel written by any writer and say that I've mastered their art just as long as I put my name to it...

I don’t much care for how it came to be.

I think that the original artist might just care a wee little bit.

That is the point of art; it is to be seen and to be enjoyed.

I don't agree, an artist creates something unique from within their being whether people like it or not. Vincent Van Gogh is a case in point - He sold one painting in his lifetime. Salvador Dali - he was a total nutcase (great artist though)

The truth is you don’t have to like everything. That is why we have a variety art, books poetry...

Yes I agree, and that is why each artist produces their own work and not knockoffs of other peoples work.

[Frederico Rogeiro]

adrianh, I really don't kow what to say... "alter a little bit" - that's just what you see.
You see this as some copyed thing, with no value of it's own.

I'm not looking to convince you to like this, or to undertand this, but I try to interpret the forms and facial expressions with some kind of visual logic that brings to a result where the elements are distorted and proportioned in a selective way, like our memories do to what the retain. And still remain highly recognizable, as a proof to the value of that logic. And then there's the technical work with the media.
That's why people like good caricatures and dislike bad ones, according to their taste.

[adrianh]

Hi Fredereco,

You mustn't take my views on your art to heart. I look at it through my own eyes. I am sure that there are many artists and musicians that appeal to me but don't appeal to you. Not that either view is better per se, just that they are different.