What do I do?

[twinscythe12332]

where is the company based?

[eitai2001]

where is the company based?

They are a South African company ... but I do not wish to disclose any details of this company ... sorry.

[bullfrog]

If someone asks for the design fee upfront, then find someone else to deal with (unless it is a really small website). Also, a hosting company is not really the best place to get a website designed- they specialise in hosting, design is totally different. Imagine going car guard on the street wanting to buy a car- car guards look after cars, not sell them and it is about the same for hosting companies.

This I disagree with. An upront fee is pretty standard practice in web design.

I've had a situation where a client wanted a site designed. I asked 50% upfront and he was happy to pay. He sent me a lot of content for inclusion on his site, but not all the content.

I spent about 75% time that I quoted for making the site. That was adding in all content I had received so far. I waited over a year for this client to send me the rest of the content, he never did and I wrote it off. Hence the site wasn't deemed complete. Had I not charged that 50% deposit, I would have spent 20 hours on a project and gotten no compensation. This hardly seems fair to me. This was before I had a standard contract for web design.

Just remember that web designer/developers need to earn their living to survive too and if a client doesn't send needed content and just plainly refuses to pay because the site was never completed, due to his negligence, what is there to protect the designer?

I understand that there's a lot of dodgy designers out there, in fact I understand that there are a lot of dodgy people out there that will cheat you. It's not limited to design and if you find a reputable company/business/designer to work with, you'll find the 50% thing is pretty standard practice.

You also don't need to get a unique contract done by a lawyer for every client you have. You can get one written and use it for all your design. The small cost of doing this is worth the hassles it will save in future.

As for going to a hosting company for a design, you're generalizing way to much on that front. Why can't a web hosting company have different divisions, like a web design division? Yes sure I run a web hosting business and I would agree I am not fit for web design as I just don't have an artistic bone in my body, but I have a designer for a partner who does some amazing work. He on the other hand isn't as great at the technical stuff like server management or any technical going ons in hosting.

What would put us apart from a company who does only design or a freelance designer? I think it's a great relationship because I'll always be better at the technical stuff and he'll always be better at designing. If anything, I look at this as a strong point.

[mahoonas]

well Bullfrog, yes, I am generalising. There are hosting companies that are good at website design but that is the exception- and those that are good at design are like that because they have, as you said, a freelance designer. Some people think that website design and hosting is the same thing which is what I want to dispel. I design websites and I do not for a second pretend to know the intricacies of hosting, I just get a hosting company to do it for me. Knowing the strengths of a business is key to getting good service and I am suggesting that if people want good hosting they go to a hosting company, if they want good website design they should go to a website designer.

A typical flop of great magnitude is when people go to the wrong place for website design- look at Telkom’s “website design” offering: cybertrade. If you want to be shocked google cybertrade and a product, you will be amazed at what Telkom calls a website. Those poor people who are losing business because their website looks like the backend of a hyena. This is my point- Telkom does telecoms well but don’t go to them for websites.

As for the design fee, 50% upfront is reasonable but 100% is not. I have met people whom paid a fat wad of cash for a website and got nothing in return- the designer just disappeared. Would you pay a builder in full before he started?

Anyway, I am generalising and there probably are exceptions but I am still not going to big brand companies who offer web services on the side.

[eitai2001]

I agree with what you are saying Mahoonas ... I would never pay 100% up front, but 50% is definitely a reasonable figure ... its almost the industry norm, and they have been a good company to me so far, which is why I used them.

As for an update, spoke to the MD today. He admitted that there was a huge internal communication failure with regards to the site and that they haven't worked with the system before so there was a large learning curve involved. He has assured me that they are redesigning it without the errors now, and has told me he is not going to charge me the other 50% because of all the time delays and issues I have been through with them ... and I think it was very nice of him to do this. I'm just glad this ended with a happy ending, and that I managed to keep my cool last week.
I tend to get really irritated and over react and by then its too late ... its you guys that helped me vent and helped me keep my cool and ended with a happy ending, so thank you to all who responded

[bullfrog]

As for the design fee, 50% upfront is reasonable but 100% is not. I have met people whom paid a fat wad of cash for a website and got nothing in return- the designer just disappeared. Would you pay a builder in full before he started?

Sorry I slightly misread or rather misinterpreted your post. I agree about paying the full fee upfront though and would never expect a client to pay the full fee up front.

As for the designing, I've also seen some pretty shocking sites from people who call themselves web designers in my local town. Still using old outdated design methods and they are pretty much one man shows or freelancers.

I would say it all depends on the department in a big company like telkom. If they're trying to just milk people for more money and get a bunch of unskilled people doing the design, then you'll end up with bad designs, but people will still go to them because they're a big reputable () company.

So on that front I would agree, first do some research and look through some portfolios before deciding on a designer.

I guess you've earned your right to generalize a bit as a designer.

Sorry for derailing the thread!