Linking the Illuminati & SARB

[msmoorad]

I'll take my chastisement with good grace, Francois. I assure you my purpose is not to censor, but to moderate.

I have three concerns, and perhaps you can help resolve them.

1. The authors so frequently raised here have an unfortunate habit of presenting historical fact and their assumptions of purpose in like manner. Do you believe they make a reasonable distinction between fact and speculative supposition in their pieces?

2. When it comes to those allegations of long-standing conspiracy, I have yet to see one "part of the Illuminati long-term plan" allegation that could not be matched by a purpose of relatively short term profiteering. Could you point to a solid piece of factual evidence that proves an Illuminati conspiracy that has spanned centuries?

3. Many of these pieces criticise the powerful influence of the bankers. If the heavyweight financiers of this world are unfit to wield this power, who would you give this power to? And how?

Dave
you & many others seem to have this opinion:
that there is NO other way to do it other than the current interest based financial system which is in the control of the zionist intl bankers who are HQ'd in the City of London.
if its not broke, then why fix it

if you knew the reality of the siituation
-how they are fooling us & printing money out of nothing
then you lot might not be so accepting

or maybe you know but still think theres nothing wrong with it?
why should every country not print it own money?
why should private banks(reserve banks) print the money & lend it on interest to each country?

almost every countries national debt is made up of interest
this is what keeps the countries of the world obligated to the UN, IMF, BIS etc
and these banking parasites then use this hold over countries to steal real wealth like oil, gas, gold, coal etc

imagine, they print money out of thin air
they lend it to you & charge interest
if you default,
then you lose whatever you have paid back PLUS the house, car etc that you have been working hard to pay off for so long.

what did they do?
how much real work /effort did they put into it?
just added a few more zeros to the computer?
its a big scam & you somehow believe its a fair system.

[Dave A]

if its not broke, then why fix it

Probably more a case of you can't fix it until you know what you're aiming for - you don't want to dismantle the existing methods of exchange without knowing what to replace it with. You'd be making the situation worse, not better. I think there's enough concern about problems in the existing way of doing things for a meaningful idea to get serious consideration.

On the "just printing money" side of things, it isn't quite as simple as you suggest. The Zimbabwe government "just printed money" to pay their bills and look what happened. The system adjusts to the oversupply of money vs the underlying value it represents - which didn't really change or actually was going backwards. Bingo - rampant inflation and weakening foreign exchange rates.

[Justloadit]

On the "just printing money" side of things, it isn't quite as simple as you suggest. The Zimbabwe government "just printed money" to pay their bills and look what happened. The system adjusts to the oversupply of money vs the underlying value it represents - which didn't really change or actually was going backwards. Bingo - rampant inflation and weakening foreign exchange rates.

Yes but at the end of the day, as far as internal debt was concerned, it was all cleared, and the losers were the citizens, who bore the brunt of the loses.

[Dave A]

Exactly!

[tec0]

Deleted

[Dave A]

So I am calling you out msmoorad and others spewing this crap...

Let's try to keep playing the ball, please.

[msmoorad]

have i just missed something interesting?

[Dave A]

Just noticed in another thread...

I love the new signature, msmoorad
I guess that makes us co-conspirators

[Miro Bagrov]

On the topic (for a change)

Money is a big illusion. I want to really point this out. Firstly the government makes money. Prices increase or decrease. This does nothing to the product. So money must be an illusion.
A peach in Checkers costs R0.20.. No it doesn't.
A peach after a few weeks is over-ripe, it's now discounted to R0.10.. not true.
The peach - was free when it came off the tree. It remains free until it is rotten. There is no cost. All of it was an illusion.
Regardless of the price of peaches, a peach will still have the same nutritional effect on people... Right.
So now that you all mention the "losses" taken by taxpayers... I will ask what loss was it if you were out of the system of money? No loss. So then the fact that you are in the system of money caused the loss. I can't lose at monopoly while playing chess. We should try use our money to achieve independence from money.
Who made a profit? The person who sold the peach tree for a profit of R200 per pot *because we know that the peach tree is free from nature*. Or is it the person who bought it that made the profit? The one receives a piece of paper, the other a tree which will give him food.

So, firstly: understand nature... When you understand nature you will not be short of money for long.

In that case, the "taxpayers" lost nothing - because they gave a big 'nothing'. It's all in the mind of the one who has it. You will always lose if your wealth is fully counted in money.
If you buy land and you have animals, and the animals produce milk. And you have trees and the trees make fruit, and so forth... Then if you have lost all your money, you have no problem... You will get it all back.
Because if you offer your milk temporarily to another, your will still be paid. However, if you lose all you money you will not starve, neither will your family.
The most unsafe man is the one with money as his only source of food... He is guilty, and he will pay the price for using money (paper) as the only source of food.

Then on the topic of the financiers of the world. They are on the way out of the world. They are another example of people who use nothing to make nothing. They provide you with a source of imaginary paper with antelopes on it and then you must dance like a monkey to pay it back... Just try not to need their paper in the first place if possible.

The SARB is very uninteresting to someone who does not need money. However everyone with a loan is hanging on the SARB's decision... So rather borrow from a friend. And lend to a friend. Get out of the system.

People. My message is... No one's position is perfect. If you planted a peach tree for every theory you read, you would own enough trees to see there is no point in reading theories...

[Blurock]

A peach in Checkers costs R0.20.. No it doesn't.
A peach after a few weeks is over-ripe, it's now discounted to R0.10.. not true.
The peach - was free when it came off the tree. It remains free until it is rotten. There is no cost. All of it was an illusion.

There is only a cost to the peach if there is human intervention. Sometimes that intervention is at the expense of someone else.

[Miro Bagrov]

Humans are only rewarded with money because they want to buy something else with it.

Remember when we were kids living with parents. What did we need then?
To this day: All we need is a house, several meals, and a bed.
There rest is a luxury we can avoid. If we can come to a position that we can have these things and not struggle to have them we are winners.

[tec0]

Sadly one can so easily be blinded as to believe that the world is out to get her/him that in the end it happens. The truth is the human race can accomplish more than just work hard.

But what if I like my computers, books and flushable toilets. What if I enjoy the nice stuff? In an earlier and now deleted post I got really angry at conspirators. I got angry because they want to blame everyone and explain to us how gullible naïve and stupid we are. Apparently there is this truth that we will never be able to grasp.

The real truth is exploitation is no longer needed and it scares the living hell out of big organizations. Fact is with a little discipline we can maintain the statuesque without the need for money, investment groups and even leadership. We are at the point where technology can and will be able to do just about anything.

But now because people are comfy they tend to get irritated by everything. Green organizations are always trying to force us to see things their way. See genetically enhanced food is a problem for green organizations and trough lies and miss information they kept this much needed food away from countries that needs it.

Then conspirators decided that inoculation is how the man makes its money now vaccines are evil and that must go. Despite the fact that it practically saved the human race. And these conspirators they just don't care they are right everyone else is wrong. Now people will die again just because you cannot convince someone that the intentions of vaccination is good.

Religion nuts say it is wrong for a person to use birth control and condoms and they will actually go to poor countries and force there believes onto poor people. Again this single mindset comes to play here.

In a word conspirators just don't get it. For them it is all about the connection the evil powers and yet they are hiding for reasons unknown. If people are that powerful they don't need to hide…

anyhow… Conspirators don’t see the damage that they are responsible for…

[wynn]

Just to seperate the 'Zionist' angle from the 'Illuminati' angle a read of wikipedia offers some advice:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

"Anti-semites have alleged that Zionism was, or is, part of a Jewish plot to take control of the world.[100] One particular version of these allegations, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (subtitle "Protocols extracted from the secret archives of the central chancery of Zion") achieved global notability. The protocols are fictional minutes of an imaginary meeting by Jewish leaders of this plot. Analysis and proof of their fraudulent origin goes as far back as 1921.[101] A 1920 German version renamed them "The Zionist Protocols".[102] The protocols were extensively used as propaganda by the Nazis and remain widely distributed in the Arab world. They are referred to in the 1988 Hamas charter.[103]"

And sorting the 'Illuminati' angle:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILUMINATI

"Writers such as Mark Dice,[9] David Icke, Texe Marrs, Ryan Burke, Jüri Lina and Morgan Gricar have argued that the Bavarian Illuminati survived, possibly to this day. Many of these theories propose that world events are being controlled and manipulated by a secret society calling itself the Illuminati.[10][11] Conspiracy theorists have claimed that many notable people were or are members of the Illuminati. Presidents of the United States are a common target for such claims.[12][13]

A key figure in the conspiracy theory movement, Myron Fagan, devoted his latter years to finding evidence that a variety of historical events from Waterloo, The French Revolution, President John F. Kennedy's assassination and an alleged communist plot to hasten the New World Order by infiltrating the Hollywood film industry, were all orchestrated by the Illuminati.[14][15]"

So if you are a true blue conspiracy theorist this will mean nothing?

[Frankincense]

@Dave A: I trust Wynn's expected and useful internet rip of Illuminati and Zionist differences is common knowledge to those studying how immoral short term profiteering schemes and long term strategically imposed IMF debt contracts from money out of nothing etc. destroy and cripple economic progress of the oppressed purposefully by it's leaders, you may want to call "The Elite" for want of a differing title. All these various words we adorn the architects of disaster with, leaving a clear audit trail wake behind them for us to strudy, shall be considered semantics. We ought to be left with nothing to disagree upon.

@ Miro Bagrov:

If we can come to a position that we can have these things and not struggle to have them we are winners.

Man will always need food, clothes & shelter from birth till death, and this is obtained through labour/work. Being a natural man, you remain subject to Genesis 3:19

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken : for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return .

Which solution in the form of escape from ordained labour (whether physical or mental) is being advocated by yourself? The people harvesting the peaches are rewarded for thier labour(struggle). That wont ever change as each will be rewarded according to his deeds (struggles).

Humans are only rewarded with money because they want to buy something else with it.

Your logic is flawed. Logic dictates that seeing as we all want to buy so much with unlimited "wants", we would all be rewarded with as much as we could should your notion be accepted. No... humans are rewarded with currency in the form of money equivalent to the value of their labour tendered.

Naturally all aspire to be rewarded so as to enjoy the fruits of thier labour or to save it. If the currency is represented by paper money as a promissory note representing the actual labor value of production, barter exchange of commodities(gold /silver/rice cakes), things would be better/fairer as we could take all our paper to our bank and demand a few bags of whatever its worth in redeemable gold/silver etc. and we could close our bank accounts and remain in exile and survive by free exchange. But that too wont happen...

As we now have "irredeemable" paper being used as currency backed by nothing created out of thin air, any scholar interested in economic justice would concern themselves with this injustice as means the only value of the paper we carry is that which the "house of cards/system" has given it by carefully calculated autocractic monetary policy meetings alone and unless you use the system in place, its worthless. We no longer barter using valuables, unless you agree to be deleted, and exit the s6ys6tem6. Your only challenge remains that EVERYONE will be forced, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive what is coming....so that no one could buy or sell unless he had....

You advocated the following which I respect:

Get out of the system.

Sadly, even if you "exit the system", it is clear that the S6ys6te6m will come for you & your family.

Blessings to both those who were and those who were not brave enough to take up arms when they are tracked and destroyed, refusing, yet they will live in The Hereafter if their death was in TETRAGRAMMATON. As its written so it shall be.


@Blurock :

Sometimes that intervention is at the expense of someone else

Indeed it is as labour(struggle) is required.

@ Tec0:

In a word conspirators just don't get it. For them it is all about the connection the evil powers and yet they are hiding for reasons unknown. If people are that powerful they don't need to hide…

When you read and learn what these people are doing in your beloved country while you are enjoying your computer, books and flushable toilets and enjoying the nice stuff, you may start to accept it's not about you & what you want, but it's more about ensuring universal progress is moral, and the good of all mankind ought to be the foundational intention & motive for you to be able to sit on your toilet after enjoying all your "nice" stuff we are greatfull to have.

Apparently there is this truth that we will never be able to grasp

Indeed, after years of reading your words, you remain unable to grasp the truth I speak of, but being persistent, I will continue to shine the torch of light in the frozen deers eyes on this information freeway, in the hope that you decide to get out the way and refrain from ridicule, and start to read more of the books you claim to enjoy and type alot less. Below is what you would wish could be termed "conspiracies", but are facts which ought to perturb any toilet sitting reserve banking prison planet denialist for your logic is pretty normal for the more robust type of australopithecine currently, but falls woefully short of the type of logic which is capable of designing rocket motors and wheel-barrows.

• The Lifeboat scandal and our memories are still fresh of that incident back in the mid ‘80s which was a rescue package given to Bankorp when it was in financial trouble and thus intended to keep it afloat. The SARB illegally, against the provisions of the SARB Act, lent R300m to Bankorp (which was later bought by ABSA) in 1985. This scandal rocked the local banking fraternity because to further assist in preventing Bankorp from collapsing, the SARB lent it a further R1.5bn in the mid 90s at a lowly interest rate of 1% per annum when it wasn't permitted to do so.
  
• Bankorp went on the lend this money at a whopping 16% which effectively meant that it made a 15% profit on money that it shouldn't have been given in the first place. The governor at the time was Mr Chris Stals, who was exposed by the former MI6 intelligence officer, Dr John Coleman as having been a member of the Committee of 300(Just another title of the architects of disaster Dave A) which in turn aided apartheid South Africa through a loot of R20bn of public coffers to sustain that evil divide and rule system through various banks linked back to Switzerland.
  
• To this day, no one at the SARB or government has really bothered to recoup the close to R2bn that was indirectly borrowed to Volkskas by virtue of its acquisition of Bankorp of which the former became one of four banks which merged to become ABSA. And the R6bn which was given to SASOL with conditions and provisos. Our government has never asked for its money to be paid back nor has it sought to leverage off its money in order that its citizenry can get cheaper fuel.
  
• Volkskas laundered close to R20bn through various schemes with Armscor which found its way into Switzerland banks. All these funds are traceable and the very finance manager and conduits through whom they were looting. Again the common denominator is ABSA whose then Volkskas CEO (Dr Danie Cronje) was instrumental in this money laundering. When the four banks amalgamated and later became ABSA, Dr Cronje became its Chairman. This bank (ABSA) is the very institution into which Bankorp was incorporated (through Volkskas).
  
• As if that was not enough, the then Deputy Governor to Dr Chris Stals (who presided from 1989-99) who was present when the second tranche of money (R1.5bn) was given to Bankorp, (Ms Gill Marcus) then later became ABSA's chairman, thus succeeding Dr Cronje in the process. She somehow made her way back into the Reserve Bank at the helm, which means that those funds will never return to the SARB. In terms of the Reserve Bank Act, 90% of profits they make must be given back to government notwithstanding the majority being private shareholders. It follows that the public is indirectly being denied the much needed resources which could help towards service delivery initiatives
  
• So in order to illustrate the point of the SARB's complicity since this theft is being hidden by the media fraternity : The Reserve Bank made a whopping R1bn loss whilst its subsidiary (The South African Bank Note Company) moved from an R81m profit in the 2010 financial year to a R23m loss. Surely those funds (a total of R2bn and even more considering interest over the years) should be returned to recapitalise or inject the much needed working capital to the Reserve Bank.
  
  Calling on the Minister of Finance and the President to look into this matter is like asking the Devil to bless you.
  

[tec0]

• The Lifeboat scandal and our memories are still fresh of that incident back in the mid ‘80s which was a rescue package given to Bankorp when it was in financial trouble and thus intended to keep it afloat. The SARB illegally, against the provisions of the SARB Act, lent R300m to Bankorp (which was later bought by ABSA) in 1985. This scandal rocked the local banking fraternity because to further assist in preventing Bankorp from collapsing, the SARB lent it a further R1.5bn in the mid 90s at a lowly interest rate of 1% per annum when it wasn't permitted to do so.

Ok cool but wasn't ABSA founded in 1991? Also did SARB lent them the 1.5bn in the mid 90"s so the money was given to ABSA the new owners from 1985? Because Volkskas bank are the owners of Bankorp and according to the info here, Volkskas was already part of ABSA when this occurred?

I am confused?