Staffing Black List

[QUINN]

Would it be possible to setup a service or website where business owners can name and shame staff members after they have left your company to enable other business owners to avoid your mistake.
I have had a few BAD experiences of late and I began to think, what if it was possible to know of these bad apples before you employed them.
It should be fair and operated just like a credit reporting agency.
Would other business owners find this info useful?

[Dave A]

I'm toying with a similar idea for debtors who emigrate without settling their debts. In my latest case it seems there was a clear intention to defraud us.

If we can figure out the legal angles, I'm game.

[Vincent]

Would it be possible to setup a service or website where business owners can name and shame staff members after they have left your company to enable other business owners to avoid your mistake.
I have had a few BAD experiences of late and I began to think, what if it was possible to know of these bad apples before you employed them.
It should be fair and operated just like a credit reporting agency.
Would other business owners find this info useful?

I think one would have to tread very carefully in your wording, as you might get sued for defamation (libel).Also it may be in contravention of LRA

[QUINN]

I don't think defamation would be an issue otherwise every credit reporting agency in the country would pend all their time in court.

This would purely be for information purposes, use it ....dont use it, at least the employer would have been informed.

How many time have you employed a person only to find that one month down the line they are a totally different person.

I just employed the most incompetent manager at three of my video shops.
over the last 3 months he has cost me a fortune.
When I asked him to appear at a disciplinary hearing he just left, assuming I fired him. Now he has made complaints at the Labour Dep, the CCMA, The unemployment commissioner,the bargaining council for the entertainment industry, the films and publications board, the SABC and the SAPS.

I have had to answer to all these institutions whether his claims had merit or not.
Up to date I could not get him to attend a hearing.

[Dave A]

What would be the "required fields".

Full name - ID number - details of transgression - contact details of previous employer?
I suppose the objective could be achieved just with full name and the contact details of the person filing the report for further details.

Any other ideas?
Would you want it crawlable by search engines or private members only stuff?

I'm actually worried about the ID number part, thinking about it. So I think it would have to be a members only deal, and one where those who have access are of confirmed and traceable identity.

[QUINN]

I was thinking along the lines of having a website where any one could search with an name and id. The site would then confirm a listing or decline .
The client would then need to pay a small fee to access the info.
We would need to verify the clients info with a registration process where we can confirm if the client is a legit business.
The info could be along the line of a short description of the events and a disclaimer to protect the proprietor

[Dave A]

That sounds do-able.

[Debbiedle]

Hi everyone

IMO, you don't want to go down this road. Even if you give a reference that might prevent such an encumbent from obtaining a new job, you will be opening the door for legal action being taken against you. ZA labour law.

There is also a case currently pending where an ex girlfriend slandered a boyfriend on a blog or site. It could well set a precedent for us in this interesting cyber world.

What would be interesting, is whether, in a specific case such as Quinns, you would be exempt on a "double jeopardy" basis from further legal action once the matter has been closed to the CCMA and courts satisfaction????? Just for interest sake???? Any lawyers?

[Chatmaster]

To a certain degree this doesn't make sense. When you interview candidates, don't you require contactable references? When you contact previous employers surely they will tell you about possible issues if they wish? Then again the applicant can lie about being unemployed for the past few months...

I think it is a very good idea to be honest. However I would also add that the site should contain both good and bad, therefore being a motivation to employees to perform. Then again I would'nt want to tell the world that I have an outstanding marketing manager just so they can steal him! lol

By starting such a site you will need infrastructure to ensure that claims made against previous employees are not just made by disgruntled employers. It will definitely happen that ex employers will just blacklist people out of anger, how do you ensure that that doesn't happen? I also think that the employee should be able to respond to claims.

Possibly blacklisting employers will also be a good idea. I can think of a few I would like to blacklist

[duncan drennan]

www.hellochatmaster.com!

[Chatmaster]

lol, and the domain is available!

[Dave A]

Probably was by now. You're lucky I'm currently on holiday.

[Debbiedle]

To a certain degree this doesn't make sense. When you interview candidates, don't you require contactable references? When you contact previous employers surely they will tell you about possible issues if they wish? Then again the applicant can lie about being unemployed for the past few months...


Hi Chatmaster - as an employer you are bound by law to give a certificate of service which includes the dates of employment and position held. ANYTHING you give other than that, which can jeopardise the applicants ability to get a job can have you facing legal proceedings.

This is why some employers are tearing their hair out. It is also a fact that we sit with nearly a 40% rate of fraudulent activity on the CV's circulating in the market today and verification is tedious and in some instances downright impossible.

A job applicant is also protected from possible bias and slander in many other ways.

And even if this was not the case, I would be hesitant to start a site such as this, purely because of the power of the net and the fickle nature of individuals who will and would be able to abuse the site.

[QUINN]

I would love to get a legal opinion on this as everyone seems to miss the point.
If you report the truth you can not be liable.
The most negative responses I have received was form employees....for good reason.
They have no incentive to act responsible as their actions never follow them.

[Chatmaster]

As employer I went through some interesting employees in my life. Especially in the IT industry you get people that can easily bs there CV's to pretend that they are super experienced, meanwhile they have little experience and just learned the basics. In the marketing industry it is very similar as many of them can manage perception during an interview. I quickly learned that calling previous employers can be helpful. I normally speak to the boss of the referral if it is a manager, to ensure accurate info, but even then you often do not get the truth.

Here is my proposal for you. Create a central database of all employees. This will require cooperation between employers and employees with regards to accuracy of information. Come to think of it, it is a great business opportunity.

• Network with business owners to ensure that they require employees and employers to list on the database.
• Track CV updates and also archive changes. It is often the case that employees modify their cv's to suit the requirements of the job they are shooting for.
• All referrals and accomplishments needs to be confirmed by employers.
• Resignations and career changes needs to be confirmed by employers

Other logical information should also be required, but in essence I believe having an absolute track record of each employee and employer will be a great new way for us as business owners to know the truth about our future employees. Employees will also realize that the accuracy of their information will be essential for their future, so will employers. Trends reports will reveal any issues there might be with regards to both and job history will be easy to track in digital format.

I think you have a great idea here, and you will definitely be able to make something really worthwhile, but my idea is that you should merge the blacklist idea into an information platform of both employers and employees to ensure that people can utilize accurate data and reveal possible "bad employers" as well. I once sat in the office of a estate agency in the south. He was a real a$$hole to be honest. He swore at all his employees and treated them like dirt especially the woman. Needless to say I left before I did any further business with this dirt bag, as I certainly would have done something to feel sorry about. I just wonder why these people even worked for him. I am sure there are others like him, and I am also sure that his referrals of his former employees would show a trend. I played golf with a very good friend of mine the other day, he saw his employees as his property and when pointing it out to him he just told me that he feels they were nothing without him. The irony about it, he is good person, but he feels that his success is his own and not because of any of his employees. I on the other hand feel different about this. You are only as good as your worst employee imo. Mmmmmmm maybe that is why I struggle to find a good marketing manager...

Hope that helps!