NADEO tracking

[ians]

This is a rather interesting tool used by banks to monitor your account and force debit order if you are behind with a payment as soon as money is loaded into your account.

Found out about this today after an arrangement was make via a telephone conversation backed up by an email with MFC (motor finance corporation) to pay an outstanding debit order on a specific day via "EFT". I transferred money into my savings account to run debit orders and was about to do the EFT to MFC. I had received payment and was busy transferring the money to various account for debit orders etc and was going to do the EFT as arranged with MFC, lucky for me I noticed my phone beep more than it was suppose to, so I checked to find that a debit order had run at 12 midday which was very unusual.

How this works is if you get behind on a debit order they load this tracking system called NAEDO tracking to your account and as soon as you put enough money into the account the debit order runs and what they do I make it a different amount just in case you put a stop payment for the amount.

What I found a little strange was when I enquired about it to the business banker at Standard bank she knew nothing of it and couldn't explain what had happened yet if you look at the link it explains what it is all about.

http://www.businessonline.standard.co.za/business_solutions/cash_management/naedos.jsp

So a word of warning if you deal with MFC and make arrangement to pay via EFT confirmed via email, don't expect them to stick to what they discuss or email, just know if you put money into the account which runs their debit order know that as soon as there is enough money in the account it will be taken using this NAEDO tracking.

I have moved all my debit orders away for my cheque account and now run them via savings accounts to prevent any issue like this in the future and because if a debit order is returned it only cost a couple of rand not R115 nor does it affect your cheque account credit rating.

[Marq]

I have run into MFC not too long ago trying to sort out my Sons account when he got into trouble with them.

They were aggressive, nasty and threatening to him even when I was in the process of bringing the account up to date. Then they tried the same tactics with me. They were reminded very quickly that I was not their 22 year old spotty client that they could abuse.

They also reminded me as to why I do not deal with Nedbank.
This scenario of using nadeo to monitor your account does not surprise me. Bastards.

[ians]

My concern is the access they have to my account as and when they feel like it.

This is why I have moved debit order away from my cheque accounts, now the debit order money is put in on the day and just the right amount and changed the run dates. So they start from the 1 and the last one runs on the 7 th. The highest value runs on the 7 th.

[Dave A]

Looking at the system, it's a bit of a mixed bag for the debtor though. Yes, if a debit is due, the system means they can run the debit before you disperse the funds elsewhere, but on the flip side -

Payment instructions are not processed against accounts with insufficient funds, preventing possible unpaid fees being charged to your customers.

That's a definite plus for the struggling debtor in my book.

[Marq]

What about the insolvency act and the world of preferential creditors? A possibility with any debtor in this boat.

Is this not the bank utilising the possession is 90% of the law practise?
Only in this case they believe your assets are their possessions.
Also if there is any dispute as to whether the debt is in fact due, I do believe the bank would not be returning the funds they had just stolen. Such is our faith in trusting the institutions which supposedly protect our liquid assets.

[ians]

They are clever in the way that they don't debt the amount due rather a different amount just in case you have put a stop payment for what ever reason.

[Dave A]

What about the insolvency act and the world of preferential creditors? A possibility with any debtor in this boat.

Wouldn't that only kick in once insolvency has been invoked on the debtor?

[Marq]

Yes thats correct - But I believe at that stage the administrator would/should be looking at the bank to return ill gotten gains. I am not sure of the period, but believe they go back three months to review payments looking for amounts going out that should have been retained for the estate account.

[Dave A]

Yes thats correct - But I believe at that stage the administrator would/should be looking at the bank to return ill gotten gains.

And any other recipient of "ill gotten gains".

Of course, there's a reason why it's commonly referred to as "claw back". Making a determination is one thing, enforcing is another (especially when it comes to banks).

I am not sure of the period, but believe they go back three months to review payments looking for amounts going out that should have been retained for the estate account.

Six months last I heard.

Returning to the NADEO concept though - I wonder how much the "Early" part of the acronym is to some extent misleading. My impression is the debit order pull for the particular transaction would actually be delayed (until there are funds available), rather than running early (i.e. before the original due date).

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the actual service offering here.

[Marq]

Was the cancellation of the 'debit pull' transaction type only applicable to sars?
I thought it related to all creditors but apparently all they need is the nod of your head and you're in.

http://www.newsmonitor.co.za/newsmonitor/view/newsmonitor/en/page28457?oid=1132966&sn=Article+Detail&pid=558&highlight

They probably have a delay until funds available because they would have too many queries and reversals if it was too early.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the actual service offering here.

What service offering to whom? According to this blurb from Standard, its a service offered to their clients to control their own collections. So its not a system used by the bank itself?

http://www.businessonline.standard.co.za/business_solutions/cash_management/naedos.jsp

[Dave A]

What service offering to whom? According to this blurb from Standard, its a service offered to their clients to control their own collections. So its not a system used by the bank itself?

Oh, it's clearly a debit order management system for creditors to get money from their debtors. It just seems to come with a few new tricks.

[ians]

It is a very simple system used by motor finance corporation (MFC) which will not run until you deposit enough money to run the debt, no money no debit, as soon as I deposited money into that account which had the NAEDO tracker monitoring my account probably already from the day we made arrangements to pay via EFT. I believe that at anytime as soon as there was enough money, even before the arrangement day the debt would have run. I deposited money into the account and within minutes an sms indicated that a debit had run. Lessons learnt and at least I know from this day on never to trust what is agreed be it a recorded telephone conversation or an email to back it up.

[Marq]

Dear Sir:
I am writing to thank you for bouncing my cheque with which I endeavored to pay my plumber last month.
By my calculations, three nanoseconds must have elapsed between his presenting the check and the arrival in my account of the funds needed to honour it..
I refer, of course, to the automatic monthly deposit of my entire pension, an arrangement which, I admit, has been in place for only eight years.
You are to be commended for seizing that brief window of opportunity, and also for debiting my account R30 by way of penalty for the inconvenience caused to your bank.
My thankfulness springs from the manner in which this incident has caused me to rethink my errant financial ways.
I noticed that whereas I personally answer your telephone calls and letters, --- when I try to contact you, I am confronted by the impersonal, overcharging, pre-recorded, faceless entity which your bank has become
From now on, I, like you, choose only to deal with a flesh-and-blood person.
My mortgage and loan repayments will therefore and hereafter no longer be automatic, but will arrive at your bank, by cheque, addressed personally and confidentially to an employee at your bank whom you must nominate.
Be aware that it is an OFFENCE under the Postal Act for any other person to open such an envelope.
Please find attached an Application Contact which I require your chosen employee to complete.
I am sorry it runs to eight pages, but in order that I know as much about him or her as your bank knows about me, there is no alternative.
Please note that all copies of his or her medical history must be countersigned by a Notary Public, and the mandatory details of his/her financial situation (income, debts, assets and liabilities) must be accompanied by documented proof.
In due course, at MY convenience, I will issue your employee with a PIN number which he/she must quote in dealings with me.
I regret that it cannot be shorter than 28 digits but, again, I have modelled it on the number of button presses required of me to access my account balance on your phone bank service.
As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Let me level the playing field even further.
When you call me, press buttons as follows:
IMMEDIATELY AFTER DIALLING, PRESS THE STAR (*) BUTTON FOR ENGLISH
#1. To make an appointment to see me
#2. To query a missing payment.
#3. To transfer the call to my living room in case I am there.
#4. To transfer the call to my bedroom in case I am sleeping.
#5. To transfer the call to my toilet in case I am attending to nature.
#6. To transfer the call to my mobile phone if I am not at home.
#7. To leave a message on my computer, a password to access my computer is required. Password will be communicated to you at a later date to that Authorised Contact mentioned earlier.
#8. To return to the main menu and to listen to options 1 through 7 again
#9. To make a general complaint or inquiry. The contact will then be put on hold, pending the attention of my automated answering service.
#10. This is a second reminder to press* for English.
While this may, on occasion, involve a lengthy wait, uplifting music will play for the duration of the call.
Regrettably, but again following your example, I must also levy an establishment fee to cover the setting up of this new arrangement.
May I wish you a happy, if ever so slightly less prosperous New Year
Your Humble Client
And remember: Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to upset us