Selling on the N1

[iLLuDeano]

Quick question. What are the laws around selling items on the N1?

If you had a guy with a motorcycle selling cool drink on the move. Driving slow and just selling refreshments while people are stuck in traffic, would that be breaking the law in any way?

[adrianh]

Yes I think so, as far as I know it is illegal to sell at robots...but it's one of those things like swatting flies...you simple cannot stop them from doing it. I saw the metro cops stop and walk towards the guys selling at the corner of Vanguard and Frans Conradie (at the entrance to Wingfield on the way to Grand West) Man, I just saw dustbin bags and all sorts of junk fly and people scatter in all directions. When the cops left they all came sauntering back and carried on as before.

[pmbguy]

In PMB there are robot vendors selling hats, they have this selling ploy where they will stand by the window and tell you the hat is R30, then when you say no the vendor will chuck it on your lap and say “its free sir” usually the driver, stoked with his luck, tries on his new free hat, its then that the vendor says “please sir please give me a donation”. If you try and give the hat back he won’t take it back, he will insist on the donation. I have seen it work, where the driver actually gives in and pays the “donation”. If you refuse to give the “donation” and the robot turns green the vendor will quickly reach inside and grab the hat, this happened to me.

I still want my free hat. Next time I will try the hat on and say thank you.... and play for time until the robot turns, then I will chuck the hat on the floor and drive off.. Ha Ha!

[iLLuDeano]

That happened to me once after I said I have no money... So I thought I'd teach him a life lesson. I took the sunglasses, rolled up my window and drove home.

[vieome]

It happened to me too, I was so impressed with the sales pitch, I made a donation of R50 for the R30 hat.

What I find strange though is that at traffic lights normally there are blacks selling items, and whites begging. Complain as much as we want about B.B.E but it does not help all blacks, these people are empowering themselves too, by hook or by crook.

[adrianh]

@vieome - spot on...I've often wondered about that. I have ways try to talk a bit of crap with them. There is a guy who always stands at the same corner. He's quite small and has no teeth. He's one of those guys that try to make some money by taking the rubbish from people's cars. I always call him "rubbish" and he calls me "Meneer" He's told me about his kids, his TB and all sorts. I always try to give him something. There was a guy selling dustbin bags by him one day so I asked the guy why he was selling elephant condoms in town and anyway those black elephant condoms are far too small for me. It's nice to see them laugh even though life is really tough!

[iLLuDeano]

Agreed, some people at least try! But if you are going to stand their with a little help sign, (FUCK that pisses me off) If you can stand with 2 legs, 2 arms, you can work!! There is a guy in town with no legs, and he also takes trash from people. I mean really, he has no legs and still doesn't beg for anything. If I see him I give him a cool drink or my lunch. Or a R10 if i don't have those items. And he inspires me to work for what i want!

[adrianh]

Then of course there are the ones wwho attack your windscreen with a dirty rag and a squeegee..

[iLLuDeano]

Then of course there are the ones wwho attack your windscreen with a dirty rag and a squeegee..

Makes me cringe :|

[AndyD]

In PMB there are robot vendors selling hats, they have this selling ploy where they will stand by the window and tell you the hat is R30, then when you say no the vendor will chuck it on your lap and say “its free sir” usually the driver, stoked with his luck, tries on his new free hat, its then that the vendor says “please sir please give me a donation”.

A few years ago this type of marketing was perfected by guys with small flowers made of wire and brightly coloured beads. They'd have hundreds of these things on a styrofoam tray and they just went to cars and handed one to the driver. There was no charge for the flower as such if the person didn't want to pay otherwise they'd take a 'donation' if the driver was willing to part with money. Obviously there's always some who won't pay but their unit price on the flowers was next to nothing so no great loss but those who 'donated' were usually particularly generous and I'd often see a 20 or 50 Rand note getting dished out. It always struck me that whoever pioneered this model really had taken robot marketing to the next level.

I've got to be honest and say however that selling cooldrinks to motorists on a national motorway from a motorcycle sounds risky at best, there'd be a lot of technical difficulties that would need ironing out and it would be illegal. Also the motorbike would be traceble via the license plate so unlike other nformal traders they wouldn't be able to pack up and run so easily

[pmbguy]

Make no mistake it’s a very clever selling technique, but if somebody says to me it’s free it’s free finish and klaar. I won’t go...wow you screwed me so cleverly, here is R50 for your dishonesty...stuff that. You basically rewarding somebody because they sneaky.

Apart from clever scamming vendors, I support my local “rubbish guy” who takes your car trash in exchange for a fee. He has a sign around his neck that reads “The rubbish man”. He is a very friendly chap and business is rather good for him, lots of people use his services. I also have this old lady that sells sweets and chips near my wife’s work. Almost every day I get chips from her and chat about her family in Umtata. When my daughter is with me she comes up and gives her a free sweetie. Shame a real old loving Gogo. I like chatting to petrol attendants, car guards, tellers etc. Koenjane mvetu/mama wara wara...I like to banter with them.

What really pisses me off is when somebody is mean and stroppy with people they feel are beneath them, just to turn around and be all polite to somebody else who they feel have worth. That’s bullshit, you can tell allot about a person’s character by the way they treat those who are less fortunate than they are.

But by being sneaky and dishonest, like the hat scam guy, you do not deserve my compassion.

[AndyD]

I think you're failing to differentiate between being shrewd and cunning and being dishonest. If you follow your theory all the way to its end then all advertising, which is basically convincing people they need a product when really they dont, would also be dishonest and tantamount to fraud.

The rubbish collectors have never sat that well with me, most of them coming from a culture where littering isn't considered a taboo I've always had a picture in my head of them dumping the rubbish behind the nearest bush at the end of the day.

It's kinda interesting how different people see different business models, even very simple ones, in a completely different light.

[pmbguy]

I think you're failing to differentiate between being shrewd and cunning and being dishonest. If you follow your theory all the way to its end then all advertising, which is basically convincing people they need a product when really they dont, would also be dishonest and tantamount to fraud.

The rubbish collectors have never sat that well with me, most of them coming from a culture where littering isn't considered a taboo I've always had a picture in my head of them dumping the rubbish behind the nearest bush at the end of the day.

It's kinda interesting how different people see different business models, even very simple ones, in a completely different light.

Hi Andy – with respect I think you might have some trouble in differentiating between the two . Shrewdness and cunning have nothing to do with whether the deal is fundamentally dishonest.These are two separate issues. In other words, just because it is shrewd and cunning does not mean that one can overlook the blatant dishonesty.

If it is advertised as free and the guy never indented to give it away free but only said it’s free to procure a donation, it is dishonest, regardless of how shrewd it may be. The donation is for all intents and purposes the payment for the product. It was never free.

Furthermore, convincing people to buy a product they don’t really need is by no means the same as saying something is free when it is not. So I don’t see how or why you connect my statement to all advertising.

We can also exclude a possible comparison of how shops advertise something for free when you have to buy something else first, because the “hat guy” never had something else you must buy first.

But let me ask you this. In your shop would you advertise something for free only to tell the customer, product in hand, that you seek a donation given that you gave him the product for free? If you won’t do this then why?

My old rubbish guy stands by a set of robots where there are big bins and I have seen him chuck a full bag of rubbish in one of these bins. So I think my old chap is OK. But I must agree with you that there is a large possibility that most of these guys just go dump it next to the road. Indeed, littering is definitely not taboo within their culture

[AndyD]

If it is advertised as free and the guy never indented to give it away free but only said it’s free to procure a donation, it is dishonest, regardless of how shrewd it may be. The donation is for all intents and purposes the payment for the product. It was never free.

They don't advertise the flowers as free but they are prepared to walk away without the donation and leave you with the flower if you don't want to give anything. They're basically saying that you must make the price and if you don't want to pay anything the that's also fine, keep it anyway.

[pmbguy]

Yeah you right that's not bad at all, the flower thing is fine. I was referring to the hat thing which is totally dishonest. I think you thought I was talking about the flower thing and I thought you were talking about the hat thing.