IQ Test

[Citizen X]

Can someone please recommend a good online IQ test that I can either use online or download for our candidates ?

Naturally, a business can do as they see fit provided they willing to contend with whatever consequence that will materialise.



There is a different between a psychometric test and an IQ test. Notwithstanding this, IQ tests are classified as “other similar assessments of an employee,” in terms of section 8 of the Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998.


It’s noteworthy that all the sections in the EEA that deal with unfair discrimination such as psychometric testing also apply to an applicant for employment(someone looking for a job and goes for an interview)

1. Only a psychometrist can lawfully conduct psychometric tests for employment. This means that one needs to have a Bachelor Degree in Psychology, a honours degree, completion of board exams as well as registration with the Health Professional Council of South Africa;
2.Section 8 of the EEA provides




Psychometric testing and other similar assessments of an employee are prohibited unless the test or assessment being used -

(a) has been scientifically shown to be valid and reliable;

(b) can be applied fairly to employees; and

(c) is not biased against any employee or group


3. The implication is that it’s not very wise to simply download tests from the internet and subject potential employees to such test, the further implication is that if such tests are really required then one must either be a psychometrist, have a psychometrist in their employ or subcontract to a psychometrist

4. This demonstrates that all facets of our lives are regulated by law including the human resource function

Further relevant questions are: Does an individual who is not a psychometrist, including myself, know the difference between a psychometric test for employment and an IQ test for employment? Does such an individual know how to analyze the results of either test and draw objectively justifiable conclusions from them?

[Justloadit]

I think we are running away from ourselves here.
At the end of the day the employer ultimately is the one who makes the financial payment for what ever work is required from an employee, and has to look at the employee day in and day out!
So by that mere fact, the employer can choose who ever he thinks is fit for his organization, irrespective of how we as outsiders think that the selection method is flawed or not. since he is the one paying and no law should change that. Who are we as outsiders that know bette, the day you pay the wages is the day that you can choose to employ.

In my opinion if I am paying the bucks, I surely have every right to choose what I get for it.

This is one of the reasons that unemployment is also high, the entity who is making the payments can not choose who it wishes to employ, because who ever pitches up first is entitled to the position.

[led]

My 2cents. Personnelfiles must contain job title, job description, all certificates, test scores, red ticket, vehicle/heavy vehicle licenses. This includes screening processes for competency.

All certificates must be legitimate, up to date and on recorded with their respective institutions. All institutions must be registered/recognised with their respective governmentbodies.

Personnel must then report for induction.

All workshop/tools, safety equipment must have respective certification/quality assurance certification such as South African Bureau of Standards [SABS]. All instrumentation must have proof of calibration and service history.

If you fail in any aspect you are given a warning and time to correct or you lose your spot on the vender.

It is up to us to employ the right people but everything must be legitimate up to date and conform to all government/company standards.

I personally don’t know the commercial sector but in the privatesector everything will be by the book. If there is an investigation/audit or inspection and they found you did your own thing its over.

[Justloadit]

@Led

Duno what you talking about. This thread is about companies doing their own internal pre test to see if the canddate that has applied for the position, has any qualifications to do the job.

On countless occassions, I have seen propecs showing a number of certificates and diplomas in the art they are applying for, yet when you give them a simple schematic or drawing, they have no clue what the drawing is even about, and yet according to the law, I am in the wrong! because it is not a recognised test process. Bullsh!t.

This is the reason that there are so many incompetant people in positions, simply because the so called correct testing procedure was followed.
And if these employees actaully fail in their positions, it is now the company's fault for not training them!

Where have we arrived? anything goes now.

If you do not have an aptitude for a specific kind of field, you can not be taught it.
You either have it or you don't, so move on. Let industry get on with business, it will create the employment positions everyone is seeking, trying to force employment is not the way to create it!

[HR Solutions]

Yep sorry led no idea what u are talking about. This s about an IQ test.

[led]

@Led

Duno what you talking about. This thread is about companies doing their own internal pre test to see if the canddate that has applied for the position, has any qualifications to do the job.

On countless occassions, I have seen propecs showing a number of certificates and diplomas in the art they are applying for, yet when you give them a simple schematic or drawing, they have no clue what the drawing is even about, and yet according to the law, I am in the wrong! because it is not a recognised test process. Bullsh!t.

This is the reason that there are so many incompetant people in positions, simply because the so called correct testing procedure was followed.
And if these employees actaully fail in their positions, it is now the company's fault for not training them!

Where have we arrived? anything goes now.

If you do not have an aptitude for a specific kind of field, you can not be taught it.
You either have it or you don't, so move on. Let industry get on with business, it will create the employment positions everyone is seeking, trying to force employment is not the way to create it!

I cannot tell you how to run your business. I can tell you that any subcontractor I use will be provided with a list of requirements. If the subcontractor accepts the conditions I expect them to deliver. If they can't we go someplace else.

I understand that you have to check people out before you employ them. The same is true for me but my customer expects me to give him a Personnelfile with legitimate paperwork or they use someone else.

This is not about forcing something. This is about liability, our contracts come with penalties and demand commitment. We don’t get to play the blame game.

[led]

Naturally, a business can do as they see fit provided they willing to contend with whatever consequence that will materialise.



There is a different between a psychometric test and an IQ test. Notwithstanding this, IQ tests are classified as “other similar assessments of an employee,” in terms of section 8 of the Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998.


It’s noteworthy that all the sections in the EEA that deal with unfair discrimination such as psychometric testing also apply to an applicant for employment(someone looking for a job and goes for an interview)

1. Only a psychometrist can lawfully conduct psychometric tests for employment. This means that one needs to have a Bachelor Degree in Psychology, a honours degree, completion of board exams as well as registration with the Health Professional Council of South Africa;
2.Section 8 of the EEA provides




Psychometric testing and other similar assessments of an employee are prohibited unless the test or assessment being used -

(a) has been scientifically shown to be valid and reliable;

(b) can be applied fairly to employees; and

(c) is not biased against any employee or group


3. The implication is that it’s not very wise to simply download tests from the internet and subject potential employees to such test, the further implication is that if such tests are really required then one must either be a psychometrist, have a psychometrist in their employ or subcontract to a psychometrist

4. This demonstrates that all facets of our lives are regulated by law including the human resource function

Further relevant questions are: Does an individual who is not a psychometrist, including myself, know the difference between a psychometric test for employment and an IQ test for employment? Does such an individual know how to analyze the results of either test and draw objectively justifiable conclusions from them?

unfortunately i am being moderated and some of my posts are not appearing? No idea why that is. I was responding to the above?

I can see there is a lot of confusion towards the subject and because we work within the rules and regulations of heavyindustry as well as the privatesector I wanted to share the basic requirements when you deal with them in general.

I cannot think of s single company in mining/power/steel industry that would condone private none certifiable testing. Fact is if we want to employ someone we are obligated by written contract to follow the rules and regulations stipulated by the company.

[tec0]

According to them the "IQ" test can be performed to make sure the person can do the job before they hire the person but it is for "personal" use only. I have no problem with that. A mechanic must show his skill by working on a engine and so on and so on. Yet if they READ there own post some are actually using the IQ test to provide a "service" thus it is no longer for private use now is? No... they are doing it for "customers" thus this changes everything. They confused the 2 tings

1 is to test and see if someone can do the job at the job as part of the interview. Yes I see no problem with this
2 the IQ test is being used by a company to sceen people before they get to the interview stage. THIS IS A SERVICE Thus it must be done by sertified poeple.

It is written in black and white. But

This is what you must believe;

Yep sorry led no idea what u are talking about. This s about an IQ test.

[IanF]

No one opens a business to screw employees. You want employees who can do the job better than you without hassles and then pay them a fair wage for that.

You don't want employees who do the bare minimum or less then still come late, or better still don't come to work when there is a job for a customer which has a deadline and they are sick. Who carries that can the employer.

So how do you manage that?
You try and hire the right employees first, then you look at automating the process.

What I would love is both sides looking for the win-win situation that when it happens is great, but that does not happen enough! Instead we have the 'rights' of employees being abused because you want a fair days work for a fair days wage. If employees constantly look for ways to trip up the employer to go to CCMA or rip them off! Read Think and grow rich that works.

Sure some employers do exploit there workers, but now all employers must suffer that just drives a bigger wedge between them. Just think how pleasant it is when you go to a supermarket and the employees actually help you and are pleasant, instead of hiding away in the back until the queues are long then come out all surly from the back and then slowly help you. I look for the shops where the cashiers are all there even when there are no queues. So the Spar gets my business even though they are slightly more expensive than other shops.

So just as employers look for the right staff, employees should look for the right employers by having the right skills and right attitude. We need partnerships and not sparring rings.

[tec0]

No one opens a business to screw employees. You want employees who can do the job better than you without hassles and then pay them a fair wage for that.

You don't want employees who do the bare minimum or less then still come late, or better still don't come to work when there is a job for a customer which has a deadline and they are sick. Who carries that can the employer.

So how do you manage that?
You try and hire the right employees first, then you look at automating the process.

What I would love is both sides looking for the win-win situation that when it happens is great, but that does not happen enough! Instead we have the 'rights' of employees being abused because you want a fair days work for a fair days wage. If employees constantly look for ways to trip up the employer to go to CCMA or rip them off! Read Think and grow rich that works.

Sure some employers do exploit there workers, but now all employers must suffer that just drives a bigger wedge between them. Just think how pleasant it is when you go to a supermarket and the employees actually help you and are pleasant, instead of hiding away in the back until the queues are long then come out all surly from the back and then slowly help you. I look for the shops where the cashiers are all there even when there are no queues. So the Spar gets my business even though they are slightly more expensive than other shops.

So just as employers look for the right staff, employees should look for the right employers by having the right skills and right attitude. We need partnerships and not sparring rings.

I agree with you completely.

However this is not about employer employee relations. This is about what is right and what is wrong.

Example if someone pretend to be a bookkeeper and you pay them money do do your books and you find out she/he is not a bookkeeper you will not be happy about it.

The same is true for the “IQ Test” it is not the same as testing to see if someone can do a job or not. I personally have no problem if you want to give a employee a practical challenge to see if the employee can or cannot do the job lets be clear about this. You as the employer have the right to higher combatant people.

This is what I am trying to get too. If you offer a customer a service that you are not qualified to do then what are you doing exactly? You are testing people as a SERVICE that they are paying you for! But you do not do it the right way? Why are they paing you then as a customer? THINK ABOUT THAT IT IS THE SAME AS THE BOOKKEEPER Example!

Thus you need to have the right people doing the test. Otherwise you may not give the “SERVICE” because you have no legal right to give people the test to start with as a SERVICE.

Now the IQ test is intended to test people right as a service before they can continue. This was stated here on this thread in black and white “depending on your settings” and that is the problem that they FAIL TO SEE.

They want to make it into something else and try to make me look stupid. The reality is if you are not qualified to give people a service especially if it is governed then you have to ask yourself a serious question.

What service am I providing my customer? Is that service legal? Must I not get the right people to do it?

YES the employer has the right to hire whom ever he wants. It was never about that!

It is about providing a service Legally VS Illegally that is what this is about.

[HR Solutions]

YES the employer has the right to hire whom ever he wants. It was never about that!

Really ? !

Great then we agree

Good night hope everyone has a good night.

[tec0]

Right:

Thank you very much guys . We are not sure if we need an IQ test or an aptitude test. Would this be suitable for an aptitude test to see if people are perhaps suited to sales for eg.

Thank you very much. I am trying to narrow down exactly what I need. Is there a test that can pick up dyslexia ??

Yes they do Ian, and yes some do get past the starting blocks. But a lot of our work is done on a computer and an online package whereby you enter and work on candidates cv's on line, enter clients details etc, so they may have filled in a two page form correctly because they perhaps spent a few more minutes working on it, but then find out that she cannot spell correctly etc etc, either because she is rushed or they may be dyslexic etc etc. So I am trying to find an online test whereby we can try to pick theses things up earlier. have found some very basic ones which are not suitable because if you have half a brain cell for eg you can figure out the correct answers, so preferably need a test that can test Apptitude, dyslexia and IQ as well where we can test them at an interview stage.

It doesn't Adrian, but what it does show you is if the person can spell, write, think a little, and work out basic maths. And you can pick up if the person is dyslexic.

Nope not wasting money on formal stuff. My tests are fantastic and there will be no formal inquiry . They are applying for a job !!!!

So many people think that its "discrimination" when you don't get a job, but the bottom line is you don't get the job because you CANT DO the job !

Clearly you wish to implement some tests to see if people are capable or not but you have no intention as seen here to do it the right way.

Now when this “testing is done” your customers will be provided with a list of possible employees. Thus you are preforming a “service” and your customers are paying you for this service. Now they may or may not be aware of your selection process but it doesn't change fact that by administering the tests that you are performing a service.

This is not the same as giving an employee a practical challenge to see if they can do the job or not.
The employer/customer can do that to see if the person is combatant but is not the same as the IQ test. It is NOT.

All I am saying is think about what was stated here on this thread. Is this really the right way to do it? Is this the type of service you wish to give your customers?

Believe it or not I am actually trying to help you. Can you not see that what you are planning to do may not be ethical nor legal unless you do it the right way by enlisting the correct companies to do the job properly correctly.

[adrianh]

tec0 - some jobs require a higher than average IQ. The problem is that many people come along with many worthless certificates and one needs a way to see whether they are able to reason. Computer programming is a prime example, the fact that a person passes a basic course in a particular programming language does not mean that the person can think for themselves. I saw it over and over, even with graduates, some people can think and some people cannot. If HR puts out an ad for a job and he gets 500 responses he needs to have ways to find the best candidate, in reality there may be 100 people of the 500 suitable to do the job. The employer does not have the time or money or inclination to test 100 people, they want 5 at most, further; they want the best 5. Why would HR send 5 at random, he needs tools to be able to determine which ones are the best 5 and one of the tools happen to be IQ tests.

Ok, lets turn the situation on its head, you need a guy to work in your workshop for one day. You go to the local street corner and you let them know that you need a guy, 100 people surround you begging for a job. Clearly many of them can do the workut some of them can't speak english, some are very agressive, some look disinterested. So what do you do,, you cant take 100 people home to see if they can do the work, you quickly devise a plan to weed out the ones that are unsuitable, you dont want the ones that dont understand a word you are saying, you dont want the lazy ones, you dont want the ones that have never worked in a workshop etc. So you ask them question, you ask them whether they can weld, you ask them whether they have built anything before, you ask them simple arithemtic questions etc. The reason you ask all the question is because you need 1 person out of 100 to work for you and you dont have the time money or inclination to spend the entire day trsting 100 people to see whether they can do the work when administering a simple test will tell you which ones are clearly unsuitable.

[HR Solutions]

Believe it or not I am actually trying to help you.

Thanks so much for yor help tec ...

[IanF]

Teco
I am not going to get into a flaming war with you. But with the labour laws being so onerous on the employer they have to do a lot more screening before they hire anyone. Now you say some tests are illegal that may be. But if more obstacles and hoops to jump through are put in front of the the employer the less people they are going to employ. That is from my perspective.

I hope I write for everyone on this thread that we accept that you say IQ tests are illegal, lets move on from that and give constructive ideas on how to screen new employees.

Teco one trait which you show is tenacity which is good for a sales job, for your next job I suggest you look in that direction.