[Question] Intellectual rights

[Nickolai Naydenov]

If I have an idea for a new tv show for example, how do I protect that idea? Let's say I speak to a producer or whiever I need ro speak to, then he/she uses my idea as his/her idea, how does one avoid that? I'm sure that attorney can help but I'm also sure that they charge an arm and a leg so I'm looking for an inexpensive way if there is one. I've heard people sending themselves snail mail and keeping it as proof,is that a good idea and what has to be written in it?

Thanks

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

You could probably achieve some measure of security by getting a non-disclosure signed AND definitely record all correspondence and discussions in writing.

[Nickolai Naydenov]

Non-disclosure signed? Please could you elaborate on that?

Thank you

[Justloadit]

Also known as an NDA
Google it, there are many examples

[adrianh]

@Sterne - do you have to sign the agreement before you are given any information regarding the project?

If so then what happens if you had the exact same idea and wanted to implement it yourself?
or
If the idea wasn't new and you know of somebody who is already doing it?


It would take a hell of a lot for me to sign such an agreement especially if I don't know the exact details of the project.

[Justloadit]

@Sterne - do you have to sign the agreement before you are given any information regarding the project?

Hi Adrian,
If I may answer here, and be corrected if incorrect.
Yes you have to sign the agreement before information is divulged, or else what would force you to sign afterwards? There is no legal recourse anymore, and the seed has already been planted.

If so then what happens if you had the exact same idea and wanted to implement it yourself?

Well if you have information which is dated, and can be verified by a third party, then you may retract the acceptance of the NDA.

If the idea wasn't new and you know of somebody who is already doing it?

As soon as the information is made available to you, it is then in your interest to show that the information passed to you is already in the public domain, and was not passed by you to the public domain after you had signed the NDA.

It would take a hell of a lot for me to sign such an agreement especially if I don't know the exact details of the project.

One can not share details of a project with out detail, and the reason for the NDA is to prevent you from passing the information on to another party, even if you are not interested.
How would you like to handle a situation with another person and your idea, would give you a pretty good idea of the person asking you to sign the NDA.

I have signed a number of NDAs over the years, and most of them died prematurely, as they were not such good ideas anyway.

[adrianh]

The problem is that I am an ideas person, I have a 1000 each day and I think very laterally. I just have too many ideas of my own to blindly lock myself in by signing such a document. Every so often somebody comes along and asks me to do some work and to sign an NDA before I start - I do not touch those jobs. The problem is that an idea is not a unique entity that occurs only once in isolation in the universe and as such that person may not be the only person to ever have the idea or a variant thereof. Another thing is that very few ideas are fully developed when one is asked to sign the NDA.

[Justloadit]

Adrian, having 1000s of ideas and doing nothing about it is just as bad as not having an idea at all. Would it not be better to let someone else run with it and make something to advance the human race?

You may have the luxury of having 1000s of ideas a day, however other people may have one idea a year, and cherish it with great affection. Refusing to accept someone else may have an idea better than yours is no reason to ignore them either.

[adrianh]

10000's of ideas a day and doing nothing about them is as bad as having no ideas at all...come on you can't believe that...

The ability to think laterally, to think creatively doesn't mean that each and every idea is practical, implementable, cost effective, right for the time etc. I have a number of ideas that would make money and do well when the time is right or when I find the right partner, but the ideas will remain in my head until I feel it appropriate to implement them. If the ideas die with me then nothing is lost because somebody else could have a similar and even better idea. I couldn't care less what anybody else does, if they have an idea and they want to run with it great, I will not sign away any right to any idea unless I know exactly what the idea is.

People are free to do with their ideas as they choose and of course everybody has great ideas, 100,000000 of them and of course 100,000000 are better than mine. I am not refusing to accept an idea, I refuse to accept the notion that because a person has an idea that I may not have a similar idea.

You will never ever convince me to sign an NDA unless the entire idea is laid out on the table before me. The protection of my own creative rights far outweight those of anybody who wants to use my services. I choose to turn away work that require me to limit my creativity. I am quite sure that there are service providers who are happy to sign those documents and I am sure that they provide great service, the client should get them to sign the NDA.

[Justloadit]

A single idea on its own may mean nothing, but a collective base of ideas, including the single idea is what makes a success. The concept of sharing is what its all about.

The idea that I want to go to the moon, may sound absurd, remember Jules Verne, as was the case years before, but it may have been the seed for the Apollo missions. No single idea made it possible.

Lets take an example here, what if I have an idea, but can not make it quite work, I come to you, and you add a widget and walla, its comes to fruition. Who does the idea belong too?
Me or to you?

With out the collective ideas, it was not possible.

[adrianh]

A single idea on its own may mean nothing, but a collective base of ideas, including the single idea is what makes a success. The concept of sharing is what its all about.

Great, but if this is true then you should share your ideas with everybody and not force them to sign an NDA.

The idea that I want to go to the moon, may sound absurd, remember Jules Verne, as was the case years before, but it may have been the seed for the Apollo missions. No single idea made it possible.

One has to be careful not to confuse the issue. Nobody was forced to sign an NDA stating that they may not go to the moon because Johnny thought of the idea first.

Lets take an example here, what if I have an idea, but can not make it quite work, I come to you, and you add a widget and walla, its comes to fruition. Who does the idea belong too?
Me or to you?

Again, your widget may be something similar to an idea I have in my own head and my solution may be the basis for other ideas that I want to develop myself. This is exactly why I want to know whether your widget isn't something that has anything to do with my own ideas.

With out the collective ideas, it was not possible.

Agreed, but if one is to go opensource then you must go all the way. You can't force me to give up my rights to my ideas because you want to keep the rights to yours.

[adrianh]

My views stem from the fact that I have, and still do, designed many of my own products over time. Those products are truly diverse and I've had to solve many different problems myself. Many of the products, designs and ideas are applied to many different "widgets" using different technologies.

Let me illustrate how a single idea gets used across technologies. I am busy doing a 3D solid model of a particular train coach (The 3D model can be of anything, car, aeroplane, flower ice skate...). This model will be used to create a resin cast 1:87 scale model (a Brass etched model soon), a resin cast / cnc machined / laser cut 1:24 scale garden rail model, a 1:24 scale modlel made from MDF that a child can assemble, a 1:200 desktop resin cast model, a USB stick, as art to do a 3D relief CNC'd in wood, a mirror for a bar, coasters....etc. Within each of those technologies lies various techniques that are used across technologies and products. Now the thing is; if a customer came to me and said: "Please sign an NDA because I need a 3D model to make a MDF toy in 1:24" and I agree, then what about all the other products that, to me are simply a natural progression of having drawn the 3D model. The point that I am making is that I can, and I do make all those different products that stem from one 3D model, whereas the person who has the idea for that model, in my experience, doesn't have the foggiest idea that all those products can be made, let alone that I can make them using my own equipment within my own house.

I will add 3 technologies to my portfolio, white metal casting (lost wax and spin casting), vynil printing/auto cutting and rapid protoyping (using both Objet and Zcorp machines). Once I have those technologies then I am able to make practically any model, in any size, using the most suitable technology for the scale.

The list of technologies that I have at hand is quite long:
Laser cutting, cnc milling and routing, manual lathe work (just need to add the steppers), silicone mould making and casting in various resins and materials including foodstuffs, 3D modelling / 2D cad , electronics, Delphi programming, C and basic programming using Microchip Pics, a bit or Basic4Android programming, PCB design and art, brass etching, pad printing, decal printing, airbrushing, vynil cutting, and of course I have access to an absolutely brilliant graphic designer / sculptor... This is just off the top of my head. I am one of those peope who spend 20 hours a day developing products and making things (yes, I don't have a life in the usual way) but I sure as hell go to bed satisfied having created something every single day.

The thing is, I honestly don't mind helping people or sharing knowledge, I do mind other people trying to ringence my creativity.

[adrianh]

Two of my models






Those models are perfect examples of the use of different technologies and 100's of different ideas and solutions to problems. The thing is, those are only 2 of my current range of over 300. I know that I am off on a tangent about technologies, but what I am trying to illustrate is that I thrive on ideas and creating real, tangible things from those ideas.

[wynn]

I watched that movie on the guy who invented the intermittent windshield wiper, he used off the shelf products but it was the manner in which he connected them together that was the intellectual property that made him millions after a long court battle.

[adrianh]

Intellectual rights is such a difficult topic. I have simple idea that would make millions if it were to be manufacured on a very large scale and distributed by a large international supplier. The problem is that the damn things are so simple that if anybody saw them they could, and would do it themselves. How do you ensure that you make lots of money from such an idea - dunno. It's one of those things that just has to be done on a huge scale from the word go. Like the intermittent wiper, it could and would be used by lots and lots of people and it would end up being made by lots of companies. So I also have the NDA problem in that once I show anybody the product then they no longer need me because the idea is fully described by taking one look at the little product.