Contract Manufacturing (Shoes) in China, how?

[Onetwo]

Hi All

I have been working on a unique design for sneakers that I would like to have Patented, but it would still need to be manufactured in China (Pricing). I have spoken to numerous people that currently deal with Chinese manufacturers and yes it can be tough at times. Because it is a special new design it will probably need a complete new production line, sampling etc. I was fortunate to visit a large shoe factory in Cape Town earlier this year, but they manufacture a different range. (My design is canvas based shoe - Converse type).
Would there be any reputable company or organisation that could assist me in the project. There are plenty of companies on the web that promise to take you patent have it licensed and make a success of your design. They charge huge fees for applications etc. but of course we all now how they operate, they won't do nothing but will drain your account and keep on promising you how close they are to getting a contract. As long as you keep on paying.

thanks in advance.

[Blurock]

Well, it will cost you an arm and a leg to register your design in China. There will be no guarantees that they will honour your registration as they do not even honour patents. I doubt if you will be able to patent a shoe, because a shoe is not a new concept.

Is there really no-one that can manufacture the shoes locally, even at a slightly higher cost? If the design is good, the shoe should sell. We are tired of cheap, useless imports and at least you will be contributing to the South African economy and also create a few very needed jobs. Please....

[Phil Cooper]

Agreed - patents mean NOTHING in China - they just do their own thing!

[Justloadit]

Just a rough idea on cost for a patent. Been halfway through one at the moment.

If you file a PCT patent, which is the one that probably gives you the most time to get all the patents into order, the following

Provisional, and first filing - PCT - this is not a patent yet, but gives you 18 months to finalise your patent in each country that you select +- R100,000.00.

Once you filed, it can take up to a year, before examiners come back to you with a search, in which they send you other PCT's or patents that have similar wording or processes or similarities to your PCT filing. You have to then go through this and make sure that your final filing has nothing even similar to the findings of the examiners findings.

You then patent in each country you wish to have protection. The main countries, excluding China, will set you back about 2 to 3 million Rand.
After all this, there is no guarantee that you have a valid patent. Once you file in each country, then each country will immediately object, and then they do a search. If they find anything similar to what your patent is, then your patent is rejected.

It is a very long road, and you have to be very sure that you are unique.

Let me tell you something, you may think that your idea is unique, but there are 7 billion people on this planet, who are fed the same technological information, taught very similar subjects, and are exposed to the same articles you are. It is very natural that the solution you come with for a problem you experience, some one else has already thought of it.

Another point, your patent may be rejected on even a brochure or an article which may have been exposed to the public which even remotely refers to what your patent is.

[adrianh]

Another thing to keep in mind is this: Ok, so you get your patent...what are you going to do if somebody infringes that patent?

Having a patent doesn't give you protection unless you are willing to pay to enforce that patent...and as we all know, China couldn't care less about patents.

I'm with you on the 7 billion people, the world is a big place filled with many many bright people.

[Blurock]

So, are we back to local manufacturing and job creation?

[adrianh]

So, are we back to local manufacturing and job creation?

...and unions striking and buggering it up as usual...

[Justloadit]

Another thing to keep in mind is this: Ok, so you get your patent...what are you going to do if somebody infringes that patent?

Having a patent doesn't give you protection unless you are willing to pay to enforce that patent...and as we all know, China couldn't care less about patents.

I'm with you on the 7 billion people, the world is a big place filled with many many bright people.

Remember to get protection in a specific country, requires you to register the patent in that country. Having a patent registered in South Africa, does not protect you in the USA, all it does is that it protects you from the manufacturer in the USA from vending that product in RSA.

So there is protection, even if manufactured in China, in the countries in which you have registered your patent in. It stops anyone selling your idea/product in that country, as you then attack the importer of the said product.

[Onetwo]

Hi Justloadit, thanks for the very informative reply. Was really under the impression I could have shoe patented for way under 100k. I have spent hours upon hours on web to search for something close to my concept, but have not found anything. What scares me the most is that I am fully convinced my design is unique but to go to all the expense just to have some or other free lance designer having something remotely similar on a blog or design forum or just an article as you mentioned.
I think the risk is to big and as mentioned I can spend days searching the web, but can not be guaranteeing to find a blog or article on the very big web.
I wonder weather it would be possible to disclose my idea in confidentiality with an established sneaker manufacturer, without going the patent route? I think that would be safest route.
Once again thanks for all the feedback from all on the Forum.

[Blurock]

You may want to discuss your concept with a patent lawyer such as Adams & Adams. They employ engineers and other technical people who may be able to advise you or do a search as to what has been registered already.

Just be weary of going offshore as you will have virtually no protection against the bigger boys.

[Justloadit]

If you wish to speak to a sneaker manufacturer, the first thing you must do is to get them to sign a non disclosure agreement. Be very adamant about this, as this does offer you some protection.Also ensure that the person signing the document, has the authority to do so, else you have nothing.

The other route is off course to file a provisional patent, but then you have 1 year in which to lodge your final patent, or PCT patent. This protects you in the manner that once you have the provisional patent, no one can lodge a patent with your idea, ever, even if you allow the provisional patent to lapse.

I suggest you talk to either Adams & Adams or Spoor and Fischer. The first meeting is no charge anyway, but will give you a far better understanding what to do next. A provisional will set you back between R4 and R20K depending on the complexity.

[vieome]

Risky
I have done business with the chinese on manufacturing (water dispensers). I found a chinese company on the internet sent them an email, they sent me design examples, I paid a deposit, with in 2 months the goods arrrived all in good order. It was a great risk as I had never met the people at the company the whole ordering and paying was done online, and communication was done via email (never spoke to anyone). But the cost was cheap and we were willing to take a risk. Friends at the time told me, that normally a first order you recieve and then on the second order they take your money and run, but I did two orders and had no problem. I am sure they used some kind of program translator for the emails, but it worked out fine.


On your thinking of showing in confidence a huge corp your idea, from what I know they will simply rip off your idea and alter it slightly and produce the product without you. Dont forget the student who designed the nike logo was paid something like 50 bucks.

[Justloadit]

Dont forget the student who designed the nike logo was paid something like 50 bucks.

And how much was and has been spent to promote it?

We tend to forget the cost of marketing.

[vieome]

A professional designer might have charged nike a few thousands to design the logo, but the corp set up a high school competition and gave the winner 50 bucks. So never mind the marketing, this expense is cost of production.

[Justloadit]

A professional designer might have charged nike a few thousands to design the logo, but the corp set up a high school competition and gave the winner 50 bucks. So never mind the marketing, this expense is cost of production.

So that is called clever marketing.
If the student has marketing skills, he can use the acceptance of his design by Nikki as a self promotion on his CV.
There is a lesson for us in there.