The Death Penalty

[wynn]

Surely there are crimes that a Judge can pass the death penalty for? (premeditated gruesome cruel murder of children etc.)which under the present constitution will be substituted by life in prison until or if the death penalty is reinstated then shuffle them all through the Gallows.

[tec0]

Human rights???,I am sad to say that in this beautiful country of ours there is no such thing as human rights when it comes to criminals,the problem is actually population,to many people to little jobs,and the origin of most horrific crimes comes from townships,monkey see monkey do,thats just the way it is,if they not willing to work the first time round how the hell will they the second time,how do u propose to educate that,let me put this out there,if u go to the United Arab Emirates,and u steal,they cut ur hands off,if u rape they cut ur penis off,what is the crime rate there at the moment???????????,any serious pnishment like that has proven to work.....or am i wrong?

In all honesty torture is a very effective oppressor and is easy enough to enforce. If someone steel you cut off their hand if they rape you cut of the person's penis. What if the law gets it wrong? It happens, we have seen stories on TV of people getting the needle and a few years later they find out they kill the wrong person.

So let's say an innocent person lost his penis, must the judge lose a ball? Or an ovary if the judge is female? Remember now this man will have no chance at having a family AND if his wife may not stay with him because of his amputation? How are you going to fix that?

What about the other people that was involved and gave false testimony? Will they lose parts of their reproductive systems?

See it is easy to say chop of a hand an arm or penis but what if it is an innocent person that you are about to mutilate? Keep in mind even forensic evidence can get it wrong. Then consider false evidence and or fabricated evidence.

Now you will think "ok what if the sky falls" same principal right? Wrong because what if someone dislikes you enough to claim you steel something and it is your hand that is going to be chopped off! What if you become the victim? Is it still so easy? I think not.

And that is the problem with mutilation and or death penalty. It is not the system itself because if you can implement it with 100% accuracy then I will be all for it! But what if you can only be 99.9% accurate and I am the 00.1 that is innocent but lose an arm... now that changes things dramatically.

[mbsmit]

An interesting argument, but can their judgement be trusted given that it was poor judgement that had them doing a criminal act and got them in jail in the first place?

Yes, that is also a true... Well, either way, the government will be unable to A) Take away their right to vote and B Reinstate the death penalty noting that the Honorable Constitutional Court already made a ruling on those matters.

I wonder of the state can be held in Contempt of Court? Never heard of something like that happen.

Well, if the state could then take away people's right to vote, by just arresting them, wouldn't it in theory allow them to just enact a bunch of bogus laws and convict all of their non-supporters and then win every election (just a idea that entered my mind)

Regards,
Mr Smit

[mbsmit]

Well, ColinK, you are clearly not an supporter of the system of human rights. But, remember the second paragraph of the preamble for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights state "Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind". As tec0 said, what will happen in the event of a miscarriage of justice? That person will live with a hate and contempt of society, and what about your conscience?

Those countries who still make themselves guilty of gross human rights abuses, have gained my and I trust many others contempt.

Regards,
Mr Smit
[My apologies, but human rights are one of my passion's]

[Dave A]

Well, if the state could then take away people's right to vote, by just arresting them, wouldn't it in theory allow them to just enact a bunch of bogus laws and convict all of their non-supporters and then win every election (just a idea that entered my mind)

If they're that way inclined, I suggest it's cheaper and easier just to rig the vote by stuffing ballot boxes.

Who was it that said "the strongest argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with a voter" (or something like that)?
Winston Churchill, I think.

Oh well - we have to play with the hand we're dealt with. Let's hope free and sensible citizens will always outnumber the incarcerated.

[murdock]

Hi there,

I disagree completely with the death penalty. It is a cruel, inhuman and unusual punishment. The Constitutional Court held that there were no evidence that the death penalty had any a greater force than life imprisonment. Tell me, what would you prefer, life imprisonment or death??? Handing power of life and death over to the state? No, sir...

Also, our justice system is not ready for this, as the odds of a miscarriage of justice is to high.

Regards,
Mr Smit

the difference is the cost...dead people dont cost the tax payer millions of rands...jails are over crowded...which means more money for prison...it would be more human to let a person who was imprisoned for a lesser crime to enjoy the hot shower and warm bed...in a single room instead of being gang raped every night...chance are you will ge taids in prison and die...so what is so human about that?

how many prisoners who are released...end up back in jail for mor eserious offence the second or third time?

[berndj]

let me put this out there,if u go to the United Arab Emirates,and u steal,they cut ur hands off,if u rape they cut ur penis off,what is the crime rate there at the moment???????????,any serious pnishment like that has proven to work.....or am i wrong?

I can also cherry-pick my examples: Sweden, Germany, France, Iceland, Canada, Denmark. All have outlawed the death penalty (at least for murder).

Why didn't you pick Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan or Zimbabwe as your example? They each still practice the death penalty.

[Sparks]

The latest in the actual administering of the death penalty:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27556811/Death_Penalty1.pps

Be sure to turn up your sound first

[tec0]

Sparks Well there is that... eeeeeeeeeeeew

Brings to mind a singer that got high on sniffing his own "excrement" or rather taking in the fumes and finally died with his head in the toilet. Sad story really... What people would do to get high is astounding.

In all honesty if the law could convict without error, I would condone the death penalty. That said our law system needs some work before we can say it is perfect because it needs to be perfect when it comes to justifying mutilation and or death.

Sadly an unborn are subject to being aborted by means of mutilation and dismemberment without even committing a crime. It is justified because it is speculated that it has no feeling in that stage of development. It is still a human life being taken in the name of convenience. Thus I cannot support the hundreds of abortion clinics opening all over the place. Going price range from R75 to R250. Or so it is advertised on almost every wall in our down town aria.

So in a way it is ok for an innocent child to die, but it is considered inhumane to give a "possible" criminal the death penalty. So what exactly is the message? I don't know...

[Sparks]

Remember we are in SA. Just heard on the radio that an awaiting trial prisoner escaped from the court house on crutches Now I need the "rolling on the floor laughing" emoticon from skype
What are the chances of the death penalty actually being carried out?
The criminals will rather be pardoned for Christmas/New Year