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Thread: Racism is racism is racism ...

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    Thumbs down Racism is racism is racism ...

    Please decide which of the following statements are true as regards South Africa: -

    a) human beings are categorized according to ethnicity under AA laws and BEE protocols;
    b) with Whites excluded from jobs and contracts as a matter of course;
    c) with Blacks included as of right;
    d) and with Coloureds/Indians/Chinese to be included only if they first claim and prove that they are Black;
    e) the effect of this is that rights and privileges are being accorded on the basis of race, ethnicity and colour;
    f) this was the paradigm approach of the apartheid culture and system;
    g) this culture is racist;
    h) racism is evil;
    i) and racism begets more evil.

    Never mind which you may want to bake it, all of the above statements are true. We have racism. We have adopted it, believe in it, nurture it, sustain it, and propagate it … despite its evil nature.

    I wish I am wrong. I will be greatly relieved if someone can prove me wrong. I don’t think I am. Discussions I have had with very good people, and some brilliant minds, have faltered right here … when the above statements have to be admitted one by one.
    The answer often proffered, and it is the only possible answer, is that by some tortuous process of intellectualized alchemy, it is all OK because it is packaged as AA and BEE. When I point out that you can’t play the “Black” card to resolve a complaint about obsession with “Blackness” – silence … and lots of “well you see …” and then lots of gobledigook, spin and emotive ramblings.

    I have also heard some pretty important people, including a high profile judge, say it is “justified” in the cause of transformation. This is no different to saying “the end justifies the means”. So should you should pin me to a medal if I expose a plot to bomb Soccer City and kill 80, 000 people … sure.
    Do you still award me the medal if I obtained the info by torturing the informants?

    The “justification” argument simply doesn’t wash, both philosophically and in jurisprudence. The “means” always needs to be as “inviolate” as the “objective”.

    Now if I am right … and pray God I am not, the implications are quite horrendous. These include the fact that the whole nation is “delusional” for imagining that something that is plainly evil is good. It also includes the fact that a whole bunch of important people and institutions, such as the Human Rights Commission, are conniving and colluding at systemic evil.

    And just to put the “justification” argument to bed. It is simple enough to devise a criteria under which AA is applied on the basis of subsisting apartheid induced disadvantage. Since Blacks are the majority in this category they would still be the primary beneficiaries. However the model would not be racist.

    Now will someone explain, in language that has the simplicity of truth, that what is set out above is false.
    Let us have the conversation!
    Blog: http://coginito.blogspot.com Cognito ergo sum

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    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    To me any form of favoritism that includes race or colour as a directive is racist.

    When will BEE be thrown out as it is pure racism - which in fact is even against the ANC preachings.
    Victor - Knowledge is a blessing or a curse, your current circumstances make you decide!
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    Platinum Member desA's Avatar
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    It gets interesting when I tell locals that they can stick their BEE claptrap. Fact is, they can also stick the rest as well.

    SA is now worse in the racism stakes than it was under apartheid. Only difficulty is that 'they' will battle to launch the country into the high-tech arena with almost no decent local high-tech talent left in the country. This is the fruit of 'their' racist policy.

    'They' will only realise the severity of things, when their new taskmasters - the Chinese - really take control of the economy. Little that 'they' can do after that.
    In search of South African Technology Nuggets(R), for sale & trading in South East Asia.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisNG53 View Post
    It is simple enough to devise a criteria under which AA is applied on the basis of subsisting apartheid induced disadvantage. Since Blacks are the majority in this category they would still be the primary beneficiaries. However the model would not be racist.
    That's the really sad part - it would work as well if not better, at least when it comes to BBBEE.

    But (and it's a big but) - Where this particular "non-racial" qualification concept falls flat on its face is when it comes to getting into the "big money" league. Normally that takes track record and/or having the capital to play with.

    Of late I've wondered whether we got this racially aligned policy that has done little to aid broad based transformation from narrow mindedness, or whether it was deliberate - ie. broad based transformation wasn't the primary objective.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    To my limited and somewhat uneducated mind, I would imagine that AA and BBBEE are “preferred” and not a law “I stand to be corrected”. However large organisations enforce it as a law with no exceptions. So I don’t think it is about race at all. It is about attitude.

    Have a look at our constitution, if any company discriminate against you on Race, Religion or Gender then you have the right to bring this matter to court. I personally cannot understand why political parties are so hesitant. Write to the political party that you support give them the documentation that you have and allow them to contact the UN and ask for an international court hearing.

    It is simple if the constitution gives acceptation and you as a citizen are not an equal anymore, then the UN must react for its existence it to keep peace and create and sustain equality.

    International law
    United Nations
    United Nations South Africa
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

  6. Thanks given for this post:

    Butch Hannan (02-Jan-11)

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    Bronze Member Butch Hannan's Avatar
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    There is one thing that we all seem to forget and that is the word "tribalism" A great majority of our population fall under this simple word. A very well educated black engineer friend of mine said to me and to quote him "Butch you had better believe that tribalism is very alive and well in South Africa". This can be seen in some of the appointments made by President Zuma. Is Beke Cele really the best man for the job.
    I believe that South African society has to a large degree been conditioned to the fact that only white people can be racists.
    The black people suffer from an inferiority complex caused by wallowing in a quagmire of self pity. Until they get over this state of "entitlement" I cannot ever see things improving. By and large they still do not see themselves as equals in spite of the constitution which tells them that they are.

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    9.Equality

    1. Everyone is equal before the law and has the right to equal protection and benefit of the law.

    2. Equality includes the full and equal enjoyment of all rights and freedoms. To promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons, disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken.

    3. The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.

    4. No person may unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds in terms of subsection (3). National legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination.

    5. Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair.

    Please note number five {5} “Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair.” Now who do you think is on the receiving end of this?


    Meaning of Discrimination as defined by Dictionary:


    –noun

    1. an act or instance of discriminating.

    2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

    3. the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment: She chose the colors with great discrimination.

    4. Archaic . something that serves to differentiate.
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

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    Gold Member Chrisjan B's Avatar
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    Please note number five {5} “Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair.” Now who do you think is on the receiving end of this?

    Not me.....

    And I am disadvantaged... as I am disabled - hard of hearing, but my wife say only if it suits me!
    I don't want anything from these people anyway...

    BOVER Technologies
    - computer sales and TeamViewer support
    Elmine Botha Freelance Photographer - Photographer/ Videographer

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Agreed, it is true that there are many unfair systems “that are deemed fair because the powers that be so wills it. I say go on, live work “if you can find it” and do whatever is possible within the limitations.

    Eventually there will be a realisation and with it change.
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

  11. #10
    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    5. Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair.
    That is where the loop hole is. Who decides when it is fair or not?

    So one will never win a legal case. A very carefully worded clause which makes AA and BBBEE legal.
    Victor - Knowledge is a blessing or a curse, your current circumstances make you decide!
    Solar and LED lighting solutions - www.microsolve.co.za

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