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Thread: Copyrights Protection going too far.

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Copyrights Protection going too far.

    Nothing is without consequence. By now our generation has welcomed the beginning of the digital media age. It started with the humble compact disk and now we have seen the birth of the mighty Blue Ray Disk with its massif file storage capability and not to mention the breathtaking beauty that Blue Ray Video disks bring.

    However digital media’s nemesis is the world of piracy. It was for this reason that companies decided to create the copy protected software that is impregnated in almost every Video, Audio and Data disk known on the market today.

    Yet the copy protection code also made it impossible to convert your legal copy to work on other devices like your mobile media player. It is at this point that one realise the damaging effect of piracy. We no longer have the freedom to create a backup disk for use while we store the original in a safe place.

    Also when one look at our Proudly South African Potholes a simple CD or DVD will not last a week in a car simply because it would be to damaged to be used and this is a los of up to R300 depending how expensive your music taste really is. Some music CD’s and DVD’s can set you back even more.

    Now some companies started to introduce USB and SD card slots to their sound systems thus you do not need to place a valuable collector’s edition disk at risk. Sadly one can only utilise these technologies with the CD’s and DVD’s that allows you to encode there content to a recognisable format for your sound system or mobile entertainment unit.

    Thus the industry became self-defeating and millions of honest people end up purchasing there disk over and over again because they got damage by defective players or perhaps the dog is on a CD, DVD chewing frenzy.

    Yet only the industry is being protected by laws. To my limited knowledge I cannot think of one politician or company that is protesting the user’s right to backup their property for private use only. Perhaps these rights also must be reviewed and placed under the magnifying class.

    Sadly one can understand why CD and DVD retailers don’t care about our rights. If they do show leniency the world of piracy will step in and rape whatever device or system is implemented to aid the honest user.

    This might look like a stalemate but the alternative is both profitable and will basically kill piracy. If Video, Audio and Data disk are to be made as cheaply as possible and is allowed to be sold cheaply not only will more people be inclined to purchase originals. The respective companies may even see a big profit boost in these much needed times. Lastly piracy will become pointless and will die out.

    What is your opinion?

  2. #2
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    What is your opinion?
    Piracy sucks.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Platinum Member Marq's Avatar
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    Protection of intellectual rights and especially this field of music is really something that needs a revolutionary idea.

    On the one side there is the piracy issue and on the other we have organisations like samro, claiming to be there for the industry, who it seems, are not above board either.

    Samro settled the Brenda Fassie case out of court to avoid having their financials looked at. There was an issue of getting independent auditors and reviewers in their to scope them out, but all is quite since February this year. I do not know if there has been any follow up on this issue but it seems that samro is just there for samro, hucking all and small for a slice of their pie without offering anything in return. It would appear to be another parasitic organisation set up with good intentions but the smell of money has lured them on a different path.

    One answer maybe to bring the price of the media down, make it affordable for all and look at low price volume vs high price, piracy problems and no monetary gain. Another means of media output is perhaps needed - the cd concept has passed its useful life. The download a song concept via the internet is maybe a good way to go. Another answer is to make all copying devices illegal and if you want a replacement copy cd or dvd take the broken original back in.

    Perhaps we should go with the view that any intellectual thought or idea once out in the ether should become public domain to be used for the greater good of mankind. We should have another view on how the individual would be rewarded for producing such an idea. It would certainly solve a number of problems as well as removing the need for patent and copywrite attorneys, samros and others that hang onto other peoples inventions and thoughts for their own gain at the expense of all.

    Somehow we have to apply value to our entertainment. It would appear that the general human condition expects to be entertained in their bored state for nothing. As a result we just take the sounds and visions for granted and the majority do not seem to have a problem with pirated software, books, music or movies.

    Perhaps if these talented individuals got together and applied their minds to the problem and stopped allowing others (like producers, samro's,agents and all the hanger oners etc) to steal their energy, the world would support them. It is likely that the world applies little value because it knows it is being ripped off by a few fatcat types just like the artists themselves are being ripped off on the other side.

    Look at the latest show going down. You can buy a ticket to Michael Jacksons last performance and he is not even going to be there to sing you a song. Which fatcats and opportunistic parasites are in charge of that one? Yet their tickets are way oversubscribed and there is a paying public seeing value here? Perhaps piracy is overrated and we are just being snowed by statistics and BS people again?
    The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.
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    Gold Member irneb's Avatar
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    It's all very good saying Piracy Bad ... it should stop. It can hardly be policed in just one city ... now try that through the entire world, with various laws & various rates of police efficiency & corruption. I don't think trying to stem piracy is the best & most cost effective solution.

    You'll always find some bad apples in every bunch ... so piracy will always be a problem where someone could make easy money. Thus the only "true" solution would be to remove the incentive to duplicate & sell .... and that IMHO is not by reducing prices to such a level that it would be cheaper to buy a new CD (how much is a blank CD these days? R1?)

    At present the only alternative is to buy your music digitally, there's starting to get quite a few sites doing this. E.g. http://www.highveld.co.za/musicshop/main.aspx

    Of course the prices are a bit more than CD's, not to mention that you use your precious "cheap & fast" bandwidth to download the music. And you may have some "non-run-of-the-mill" taste in music ... so even with the 500000 songs, you may not find what you want.

    Another alternative (which the CD/DVD/BR retailers might look at) is to have an unlock digital key. May have this through an online link ... a lot like the MapSource stuff for your GPS. But that of course is up to them ... and as stated, they probably like the idea that decent folk keep buying replacement CD's each time their originals get damaged. Basically it would need a cost-benefit analysis before they even look at such an investment.

    And even these solutions won't stop piracy, as once you've downloaded the music / unlocked & copied ... it would be possible to make innumerable copies. Some media formats have a software solution buy having a "maximum" number of "listen-to" setting. But that can again be hacked ... so that's not a solution either.

    The only other thing I can think of: On-Demand Radio/TV ... but that'd require a wireless link in your car & all working with some form of (at least) intranet. Still some "clever" hacker may even circumvent that & copy it on the fly.

    No I don't think there's any solution (at least today) against piracy. The copyright protection is also not working. As soon as they've invented a new protection, you'll find hackers are busy cracking it. It's been like this since the start of the 90's and it'll continue like this as long as someone wants to do it.

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Piracy is a bit of a debate. The fact is it comes down to money. Now let us take a PS3 game for example. To download it on our local 3G networks is going to cost you R900 and up because our providers do charge a lot per 1 MB and PS 3 games are BIG. The game original will set you back R700 to R900 depending on the game and its popularity.

    Then there is also the now factor. This aside if the new PS3 game cost only R90 you will not be able to keep enough stock of it. The same is true with computer games if they make it cheap like R90 piracy will not have a hope in hell. Down loading the game will simply not be cost effective anymore.

    Music is a bit of a story but I honestly think if they ask something like R70 or R80 for any music CD Downloading it will be not cost effective simply because you’re original’s quality will be superior. That is my view on it.

    I do also agree that it is a dog eats dog world and nothing we do will change it. So yes let us look at what it will cost to eradicate piracy by policing and lawsuits and “destroying people’s lives VS dropping prices to an all time low. I think the answer is dropping prices to R70 or even R50. Yes you will still get the pirate happy die hard groups but they will no longer be the popular group.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    So what you're really saying is morality has a price.

    It's not like we're talking about something absolutely essential like food here - this stuff is optional.

    If you can't afford it, don't buy it.
    If you think it's over priced, that doesn't mean you're entitled to steal it.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  7. Thanks given for this post:

    tec0 (07-Jul-09)

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Good one as always Dave.

    However games and music is like an addiction. The wrong kind of addiction. A new game is a new thrill for most gamers and it becomes an honest addiction. You are forever spending money on it! A grown man shot his wife because she switched off his gaming system!

    Music comes down to the “cool new thing” If you don’t have it you are out! Thus you get it somehow. Teenagers that do shoplifting are motivated in a similar way.

    Now it does not make it right but it shows you the mindset of some people. So does morality have a price? Yes it does... It always had a price. It really is a cruel world

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    So does morality have a price? Yes it does... It always had a price. It really is a cruel world
    Fair enough - and the honest truth of the matter. To my mind that actually is the root cause of the problem when you get right down to it.

    I've got to give you credit for looking for break even points that could help solve the problem though. That's starting to get outside the box, and it's probably going to take some out-the-box thinking to ever come close to solving this one.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Yes. See desirability is actually the biggest problem with anything. “I must have IT!” mentality that is being generated by commercialization and advertising. Then there is the bragging right that comes with that Item. Also let us not forget almost anything can become an unhealthy addiction.

    In the end of the day you will have a little box in your home that will show you these pictures of things you don’t need but everyone wants. You will go out and everyone has one but you, you can’t have it. Unless.... you do things you don’t normally do...

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    Gold Member irneb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    So what you're really saying is morality has a price.
    Yes it definitely does, the price varies between people though. Some would consider a saving of R10 to be adequate to "sell their morality". Others would only start looking at it for a bar or more. The point is: To stop piracy you need to incentivise them all not to do this. And that's the big problem! It's the same as saying ban guns becuase they're used in crime ... a criminal will still obtain weapons even if it's against the law (he's a criminal already so why should he now consider following the law?) Morality is a relative term, no-one has exactly the same level as the next guy in line.

    A law stating: "You may not hold-up a video store & steal their stock" would probably stop 99.999999% of people. But a law stating: "You may not look at the TV showing a preview inside a video store" (which BTW is illegal since those copies are "For rental purposes only, no public viewing allowed") is hardly going to stop anybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    Piracy is a bit of a debate. The fact is it comes down to money. Now let us take a PS3 game for example. To download it on our local 3G networks is going to cost you R900 and up because our providers do charge a lot per 1 MB and PS 3 games are BIG. The game original will set you back R700 to R900 depending on the game and its popularity.
    That form of piracy would probably be stopped by lowering prices. What it won't stop is the guy downloading the Warez and making numerous copies to sell: Cost would be R900 for download + R1 to R10 for CD/DVD, then when he sells each for (say) for R90 he needs to sell 11 to 12 before he starts making a profit. He may factor in his time as well, but you can see that he's still going to make bucks if he can sell around 100 copies.

    This is the type of guy that the police usually look for. It's also easier for them to find these blokes since he needs to advertise (at least by word-of-mouth). So some people would know that he does this. The guy making a duplicate only for himself, may do so without the knowledge of anyone else ... which makes it extremely difficult to even know that he exists, never mind catching him.

  12. Thanks given for this post:

    Dave A (08-Jul-09)

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