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Thread: Labour on release of Employment Equity Report to M Mdladlana by J Manyi

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    Labour on release of Employment Equity Report to M Mdladlana by J Manyi

    Remarks on releasing the 2007/08 Employment Equity Report, speech given by Employment Equity Commission (EEC) Chairperson, Jimmy Manyi at Pretoria, Laboria House

    16 September 2008

    More than ten years into our democracy, institutional racism continues to reign supreme. The only difference is that previously it was more overt, but now it has assumed sophisticated forms in day-to-day work practices.

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    Last edited by Dave A; 22-Sep-08 at 11:19 AM.

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    An "interesting" assumption as to the cause of disproportionate representation by race etc at the top management level in particular.

    Does Jimmy know that "racism" is characterised by active and deliberate preference of individuals by virtue of their race?

    If companies are practicing racism in their hiring/appointment selection, for goodness sake Jimmy, charge them. It's time loose allegations like these get tested in court or come to a stop.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    If God is on our side who can be against us?

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    Philistines and other heathens mostly
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Or probably more relevant - from Political bullshit:
    God (n.) A mysterious entity that some people believe created the universe. God also provides the authority for many of our behavioural rules and acts as guarantor of post-mortem survival of the spirit. This potent hurrah word is often invoked to lend cosmic significance or moral cartainty to some iffy enterprise. God is always on the side of the speaker.
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    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Dave.
    We can't be naive and think that "racism" can be proved in courts. That will be assuming that everyone tells the truth before the courts, which is never the case. In fact everyone tends to "defend" themselves before the courts.
    I think our fellow white citizen must stop taking offense on these progressive policies like BEE, EE, Skills Development, etc. Because the alternative to these is what happened in Zimbabwe. We need to think of ourselves as South Africans and do whats right. It does not take a rocket scientist to evaluate that exclusion or sidelining is bad.
    This is obviously more complex than just looking at the numbers in the reports as there are a lot of dynamics involved. The company i work for had 5 african professionals resigning last year alone claiming they were not treated the same as their other collegues. And you hear riduculous claims that African Professionals are job hoppers!!! Go to Parastatal organisation and government departments and see how many people stay long if conditions are acceptable and how quickly they leave if they are not.

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    You make good points, Muzi. Besides which it seems tough enough to get matters into court of late, let alone proving them

    What frustrates me is there is clear evidence of significant progress at entry, lower and middle levels - it's at the top management apex level where transformation seems to be dragging. But it is an apex point. It relies on being fed from those lower levels. It shouldn't be a "surprise" or disappointment that transformation at apex levels is lagging behind other levels.

    I feel like instead of celebrating some fairly significant transformation progress, Jimmy & co. are stuck on focusing on the level that was always going to be at the end of queue. Yes, the job isn't done until we see that level transformed too. Yes, we can't rest on our laurels until the job is done right the way through.

    But we're not failing - we're succeeding. It might not be as quick as some had hoped, but there is significant progress. It never was going to be an overnight thing.

    Maybe I just need to be less sensitive
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Platinum Member Marq's Avatar
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    I think our fellow white citizen must stop taking offense on these progressive policies like BEE, EE, Skills Development, etc. Because the alternative to these is what happened in Zimbabwe. We need to think of ourselves as South Africans and do whats right. It does not take a rocket scientist to evaluate that exclusion or sidelining is bad.
    The policies of bee and ee do just that - sideline and exclude. How can you tell us these are progressive policies and that the white citizens should not take offense?

    There must be a better mechanism to create transformation that involves all, enables skills development and reduces the racial tension and resentment that seems to be growing rather than dissipating. These policies are a reminder of job reservation and signs that now say blacks only - where have we seen that before?
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    Dave
    "Blacks actually decreased by 8,7 percentage points from 50,0 percent to 41,3 percent at the professionally qualified and middle management level."
    There is an increase in Top & Senior management in fact. But a huge decrease in Professionals & Middle management level. This tells me there is not continuity and companies are doing as little as possible to meet the minimum requirements. They take a handfull of "black" professionally qualified and move them up the ranks without filling the gaps behind. Thats why you see a slight increase in the "apex" and worstning situation in Middle management. If you look at the ratios of black graduates compared to white graduates that leave Universities and Technikons it totally changes when it gets to entering the job market. If you look at the number of black Professionally qualified people in parastatals and private companies that deal directly with government its more representative of graduate ratios. So why are other private organisations struggling to recruit black professionals and middle managers? There is now WILL. Thats's they need to be "forced" with legislations.

    Marq,
    If you don't think correcting the damage apartheid did to our country than you are admitting that you fully supported it. Did you actively oppose Apartheid? I doubt....
    The mistakes of the past were racial, to correct them you do need to look at racial representation otherwise you will always have a group of citizens who believe they are superior to other groups. There is no other way. If "prevelaged whites" took initiative and volunteered to correct the imbalances caused by politicians, there will be no need to get politicians involved (no need for legislation). By the way things are going now, these legislations will be needed for much longer.
    You need to also remember that these legislations were agreed in CODESA as forms of reconciliation and rebuilding the country to represent everyone that leaves in it equally. These are much better than civil wars we have seen in other parts of the world and forcefull removals of people from their properties.

    These are necessary Marq. You need to drive around all corners of this country to realise that. If you keep to your comfortable home or surbub and assume that everyone lives like that, you won't find it in your heart to do a little bit you can to take us all forward.
    Last edited by Muzi Oscar; 17-Sep-09 at 08:17 AM.

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    Platinum Member Marq's Avatar
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    Muzi,
    Certainly I did not and do not support apartheid or any of its results, quite the opposite. As usual you judge me as guilty because I am white, when you do not even know me, my past or what I have or have not done. Unfortunately this is done as general rule and is one of the underlying problems in society in our country.

    What I am saying is that we are correcting the situation by a complete reversal of roles, which is like two wrongs do not make a right. I feel that there should be a better way of going about this.

    We now have a group of white citizens, many of whom had nothing to do with the previous scenario, many of whom did not support the previous regime, many of whom are not the privileged people you believe them to be and most of whom agree that we need to right the wrongs that were created. To lump all whites into the same group and say they no longer count, no longer have a say and disregard their input without regard to their support to the situation is what is cause for concern.

    I cannot speak for them, but it would appear that our other racial groups are also still sidelined and do not feel that they have a future in the country either.

    It was the same group of politicians who created the problem situation that agreed to the terms on how to uncreate it. While it may have seemed to be the correct or only way forward at the time, we are now 15 years down the road and perhaps this is a time to review how the inclusion of all people can be made to alleviate the continual underlying racial tones, skill shortages and current unjust situations that seem to be out there. I believe bee and aa policies are just creating a new selection of a few privileged people, and people round the corner as you put it, are never going to see any benefit. The current unhappiness and unrest with regard to service delivery is one of the signs of this. We still have unrest in the universities and education is a huge concern for all. Labour, unions and the general workforce are still crying out with the unfairness of wage splits, increases and management conduct. CEO's and top management of all the large parastatals, municipal bosses, and large coprporations, all of whom are bee compliant, award themselves rewards way beyond any market justification in the name of righting the wrongs of the past, while the workers are left out in the cold as usual. Is this all the fault of the previous regime or is this the greed and fault of the new one?

    I don't believe the current forcing of the situation to recruit more black professions in middle management is the answer. If one takes the accounting world as an example, it would appear that the number of qualified accountants are few and these are being recruited firstly by the top accounting firms, then the large corporations who can offer nice packages and a good percentage are finding their way overseas. There are just not enough to go round. To now force a situation of employing someone who is perhaps not suited or qualified for a position can only lead to a potential problem and I don't believe that this augers well for the future.

    There is only a whip and threat scenario for private companies and individuals to 'conform'. At this stage it would appear that retribution for the past will only be resolved when all whites have been removed from the land and from business, sitting in a poor unprivilege scenario. Then will the majority be happy? What is there for a future which appears to have no happy resolution for the minority? At what stage or by what time period will bee and aa and white persecution be removed? When will their 'sentence for crimes committed' actually be imposed.

    Surley there is a better scenario by utilising the skill set available and allowing those perceived to have obtained education and privilege by unfair means to correct the situation properly, rather than force them or exclude them out of the equation.
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