4 employees vs the boss

**Dave A** · 29-Sep-13, 06:46 AM

That's certainly a large enough organisation to expect formal disciplinary procedures to be in place.

If they are considering claiming constructive dismissal, it might be an idea to refer them to Anthony's rather excellent post on the subject first.

**tec0** · 29-Sep-13, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dave A

That's certainly a large enough organisation to expect formal disciplinary procedures to be in place.

If they are considering claiming constructive dismissal, it might be an idea to refer them to Anthony's rather excellent post on the subject first.

That is a proper Blog...

**league_of_ordinary_men** · 29-Sep-13, 10:36 AM

But do you think they should go the way of constrictive dismissal? And one of them needs to appear for a hearing on the 13th and one of them will be going to the CCMA on Tuesday to get some advise,but they want to know if they can make one big case or does it have to be one by one? Because they are so tired they don't care if they lose there job any more,one of them already found a new job already and he has one of the strongest cases and I think the one with the "weakest" cases say's the boss told hem does he have to moer them to get them working as a team and him and said if he can't do his work then he will have no problem getting someone who can and that was multiple times and there's falls accusations of him sleeping on the job from a false witness and who know's what else he has against him he doesn't even know about because the one that needs to appear for the hearing is hearing about things that she never knew about.So what do you think? There's more as well.

**league_of_ordinary_men** · 29-Sep-13, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by tec0

That is a proper Blog...

That is really good and thank you DaveA

**sterne.law@gmail.com** · 29-Sep-13, 11:48 AM

I'm loath to comment, or predict, when it comes to constructive dismissal, for obvious reasons. Remembering that CD is only a claim when a person has resigned.
The most obvious being the ability to prove. It does help if there are a couple of employees as that creates some collaborating evidence, though the obvious defence is to say they are plotting, they did not like my new rules, etc, etc.

The guy who has a new job, probably may as well give it a whirl, as he has no risk.
The shifts - are not only unlawful, but are probably a unilateral change to terms and conditions. It does also help provide some proof of intolerable conditions.
Given the need to address the issue, to strengthen a case, my standard advice is
Set out the complaint, in writing, email being good, with regards to the issues.
The employer may correct the problem, which is great. If not, a critical element of the CD case has been met.
If the employer retaliated by dismissing, the employee is where he would be if he resigned, and with probably a stronger case.
If the employer merely steps up the victimisation, then again, the case is slightly stronger.
It is imperative, as suggested earlier, to keep a diary, (locked away), and record all instances immediately, while fresh. Then 're read later to rationalise the emotion out.

're the hearing - one can't pre empty that.

**tec0** · 29-Sep-13, 12:45 PM

I would imagine this being my opinion and not based on any law or anything that your friends will be better off looking for better work. Thing is with a boss like that why would you stick around. Recording devices are really inexpensive. I paid R300 for mine it is an audio video recorder that looks like a pen. Can record up to 1 hour.

I also have a 16Gb memory card in my phone and it will record audio for until the battery is flat. Quality is high enough. Log both recordings and keep a diary. All this will proof a forced resignation but really that doesn’t fix things long term. A boss like this they don’t take kindly to retaliation.

I do feel for your friends I really do but I think shopping for another job may well be a good call.

**league_of_ordinary_men** · 29-Sep-13, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by sterne.law@gmail.com

I'm loath to comment, or predict, when it comes to constructive dismissal, for obvious reasons. Remembering that CD is only a claim when a person has resigned.
The most obvious being the ability to prove. It does help if there are a couple of employees as that creates some collaborating evidence, though the obvious defence is to say they are plotting, they did not like my new rules, etc, etc.

The guy who has a new job, probably may as well give it a whirl, as he has no risk.
The shifts - are not only unlawful, but are probably a unilateral change to terms and conditions. It does also help provide some proof of intolerable conditions.
Given the need to address the issue, to strengthen a case, my standard advice is
Set out the complaint, in writing, email being good, with regards to the issues.
The employer may correct the problem, which is great. If not, a critical element of the CD case has been met.
If the employer retaliated by dismissing, the employee is where he would be if he resigned, and with probably a stronger case.
If the employer merely steps up the victimisation, then again, the case is slightly stronger.
It is imperative, as suggested earlier, to keep a diary, (locked away), and record all instances immediately, while fresh. Then 're read later to rationalise the emotion out.

're the hearing - one can't pre empty that.

Really informative thank you for the advise.

Originally Posted by tec0

I would imagine this being my opinion and not based on any law or anything that your friends will be better off looking for better work. Thing is with a boss like that why would you stick around. Recording devices are really inexpensive. I paid R300 for mine it is an audio video recorder that looks like a pen. Can record up to 1 hour.

I also have a 16Gb memory card in my phone and it will record audio for until the battery is flat. Quality is high enough. Log both recordings and keep a diary. All this will proof a forced resignation but really that doesn’t fix things long term. A boss like this they don’t take kindly to retaliation.

I do feel for your friends I really do but I think shopping for another job may well be a good call.

Yeah there at the point of just quieting and look for another job,but dam bosses like this just makes me so made.Good idea with the pen thanks.

**Justloadit** · 30-Sep-13, 07:20 AM

Life is a bitch, and sometimes it needs a change to improve.

The type of boss described will continue to make your life hell, and if you win a case, even worse, he will fabricate evidence and even plant evidence to make your life hell.
You will find that these people are diabolical and will set their sights on you and will not stop till you are destroyed.

**tec0** · 30-Sep-13, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Justloadit

Life is a bitch, and sometimes it needs a change to improve.

The type of boss described will continue to make your life hell, and if you win a case, even worse, he will fabricate evidence and even plant evidence to make your life hell.
You will find that these people are diabolical and will set their sights on you and will not stop till you are destroyed.

Unfortunately I have to agree. My X X X X X xxxxxx boss got to the stage where he entered the apartment that I was renting from him and “searched” it. Regardless of the fact that he found nothing and later on realized that the theft was indeed form another family member and employee I was on my way out.

Truth is you don’t need people like that. After I left most of his employees did the same and his business became a shadow of what it was. See being the boss they think they can do whatever they want. They believe they are above the laws of normal men.

That said he made sure to mention that I was on his property and he will have me arrested because I was about to get physical. Still bosses like these just don’t worry about them. In future make sure you have both union and legal representation for the next boss. Be just as unforgiving as they are and don't let anything slide. Keep records form every conversation keep a diary of each and every encounter. If they cheat you with anything run to your representation and make sure they are actively involved.

**Justloadit** · 30-Sep-13, 10:24 AM

Still not a way to spend your years on this planet. There is always something better further on, it takes guts to make the move, as change also can mean turmoil.
What is important, is that you must calculate the move, always have a back up plan when the shit hits the fan, simply living a day to day existence is not living!

Sometimes the place you are right now is a temporary inconvenience, part of the stepping stones to a better destination.