Router purchase

[ians]

I purchased a router from a company, whos name i wont mention until this issue is resolved.

I bought the biggest and best one ( cost just over R4000), so i thought, took it out the box and ran it, it sounded alright. So i "thought" it was fine.

I then put it into production within a week of purchasing it, however it stopped working, pulled the trigger the light came on indcating that it had power, so i unplugged the unit and returned it to the distributor, the workshop formean came out and took the unit from me and went to test it, a few minutes later he cam back and told me there was nothing wrong with it. So i took it back to my workshop and tried it again, it seem to work ok, finished doing what i had to do and packed it away, in the mean time i have purchased 2 other routers and mounted them under the table, so i havent needed to use the expensive one. Most of the work i have been doing requires the routers mounted under the table, but last week i had a some work which required the use if a hand router, so i took the router out the original box which it has been stored in since the last time i used it and tried to use it, click click, light on but the motor would not turn so i returned the router to the distributor again this time a little better prepared.

i must admit the first time the joke was on me and everyone found it rather amusing that the machine didnt actually have a fault, Well, after being made a fool of in front of the staff at the counter, this time i knew what was going to happen so i got my assistant to film the machine in the workshop while it wasnt working, i made a point of changing extention cables to show them it wasnt the cable and plugged in a blower which worked fine, then plugged the router back in and filmed the trigger being activated and the the machine still not working, i also made a point of filming the bottom of the machine because the lights under the nachine where on indicating there was power to the machine. I am sure the guys on all the forums especially the green machine ones are gona love this video and add more fuel to why they only use festool products and not the blue one.

I drop off the router, a week later i get a call to collect my machine, i arrive at the counter and request my machine and want to know what they repaired, the lady behind the counter asks me if i use and extention with the machine, i just know where this is going, so i tell her, no, so just as i expected she then tells me she needs to call her boss. So i tell her i want to speak to the workshop manager instead because i would like to know what was wrong with the machine. They call the workshop manager and he tells me there is nothing wrong with the machine, THEY BANGED IT ON THE COUNTER SHOOK IT AROUND AND PULLED ON THE CABLE, (that is how they test intermitant faults on machines) and the machine still works and it doesnt cut out, this time not laughing at me. So i go to my van and collect my phone which has the video footage, when i get back he tugs on the cable and tells me there is nothing wrong with the machine. I switch on the video and show him the video. while watching it he can see i am pulling the trigger but the machine is not switching on and i do this about 10 times, at that stage he asks me if maybe there is no power so as i knew this was going to happen, i unplug the router and plug in the blower to show ther eis power on the extention, i then lift the router in the video so you can see the work lights under the machine are on, suddenly now they sit with a mouth full of teeth because i dont think any customer has ever been so prepared, including myself, because i have been bullied on numerous occasion before by these people. and their excuses and blaming my staff for damaging the tools etc, heard it all.

This is not the first time i have returned brand new equipment out the box, i purchased a bandsaw and 2 weeks later the led light packed up they had to supply parts so i could repair it. i also purchased a smaller router and returned it because there where loose parts and the bit holding pin would not secure the shaft so you could replce the bit, anyway i didnt want to get into a argument over it so i have just learnt to live with it and now use 2 spanners to replace bits, even though one of the selling points is the handy one hand bit bit changing facilty.

My question, if i retrun a product within the six months of purchasing a product for a problem, they tell me there is nothing wrong with the machine, yet when i try use it again a few months later and it still has the same problem, what claim do i have?

I do realise that i should have insisted they replace the machine but at the time but after the embarressment at the counter i just left. Trust me when i purchase something now and it makes a little buzz or doesnt sound 100 % correct it goes back and gets replaced. The last visit to builders express i made them take 3 machines out the boxes before i was satisfied with the one i took, it wasnt because i was being difficult, the brand new machines all had faults, which is actually quite sad considering there is suppose to be quality control checks before the product leaves the factory.

[Dave A]

If there's nothing wrong with the machine, it seems to me the problem is with the operating manual. What they need to add under the "before you return a unit as faulty, please check the following" section is:

If the LED light comes on indicating there is power to the machine, but the machine fails to operate, pull on the power cord and bang the unit on a table. This may fix the problem condition.

If you drop the unit from higher than 25 meters, it may even solve the intermittent fault permanently.

[adrianh]

Ok, just a sideways thought. How does low voltage mains, power factor problems and noisy electricity affect machines. I have one PC that is connected to a CNC machine. When the PC is at a factory in town then the PC WILL NOT boot 99 out of 100 times, but, when I take the machine home and run it at home, it starts 100 out of 100 times. Other PCs are happy at the factory, it is just this one that wants to know absolutely nothing.

[Blurock]

Ok, just a sideways thought. How does low voltage mains, power factor problems and noisy electricity affect machines. I have one PC that is connected to a CNC machine. When the PC is at a factory in town then the PC WILL NOT boot 99 out of 100 times, but, when I take the machine home and run it at home, it starts 100 out of 100 times. Other PCs are happy at the factory, it is just this one that wants to know absolutely nothing.

That must be an office PC. It is obviously not a factory worker.

[tec0]

The reality is they gave you a poor excuse to begin with. The video is proof that there is something wrong and simple truth is you don't spend R4K on something just to give it back all the time. The six months is still under the year. Thus the Warrantee/Guarantee must still be active on it.

Simply refuse to take it. There must be a written assurance that some product or service will be provided or will meet certain specifications on the paper work. Thus the company is obligated to follow trough. They have to send it back and let the factory do a test and replacement if needed.

High end tools have websites. Have a look and see if you can't track down the South African distributor. Contact them directly.

If they want to become angry ask them for there "Competency certification" If they can test the equipment then they need to be authorized to do so. It is a simple truth. When they send it in you want a date and time this document must be signed by the responsible person. When it returns you want ALL the documentation. Troubleshooting that was done, there findings everything. If they cannot give you the paperwork chances are it never left the building.

Also start using the consumer council in your area to add the pressure so that they follow through on their obligation.


Best of luck.

[ians]

I spent a lot of money on my equipment and tools, because i believe to do a good job you need the right equipment, i have reached a point where i have realised that this product is no longer good enough to meet my standards of workmanship and will start with imediate effect replacing all this brand of equipment with festool products to meet my standards. I do realise it is going to cost me a little more, but hey at least i wont have to hassle with issues like the inside of the balde burning on the SP 6000, having to tighten the chuck after ever 3 rd hole i drill otherise the bit falls out, or have to use both tools loosen the bit on the router and most important accuracy, i will be able to actually see 2 lasor lines on the cutoff machine in a lit up enviroment. The benefits and accuracy should out way the additional cost.

[tec0]

If it was me I would sell all the old stuff. The working stuff can go to the pawnshop. The stuff that is broken I will strip down for motors and copper and sell that. A friend of mine did this to all his old broken computers end of the day was able to get back a serious amount of money.

Think about it.

[vieome]

On A side note

Nytimes

Tech Shopping Rules of Thumb



* Pay for RAM, not speed. The speed of the computer chip does not matter; the attention-span or RAM memory does matter.

* Pay for messaging, not minutes. On your phone, your texting is more expensive than your voice time.

*Pay for components, not cables. Buy the best components, and the cheapest cables.

* Pay for speed, not channels. For cable internet, with enough speed you can watch TV channels on the internet for free.

* Pay for Applecare, not Mobileme. For Applefans, the Apple insurance is worth it, but their cloud service is not.

* Pay for screen size, not refresh rate. On TV screens, bigger size makes a difference while refresh rate does not.

* Pay for sensor size, not pixel count. On today's cameras you'll have enough megapixels; better quality comes from larger sensors.

500px Sensor sizes overlaid inside 1 svg

Relative sensor sizes in various camera families form here.

Those seven got me thinking about other tech shopping rules of thumb. Here are a few others that come to mind:

* Pay for reliability, not mileage. On a car, you'll spend more of repairs and maintaince over its lifetime than you will on a difference in gas.

* Pay for comfort, not weight. A bicycle's feather weight is moot once you add water bottle, a bag, any extra clothes you wear, while its comfort never disappears.

* Pay for foam, not down. The biggest difference in the warmth of a sleeping bag is the insulation under you, not the down over you.

* Pay for glass, not shutters. In professional cameras, great lenses endure, while the camera bodies change and go obsolete.

Any others?

From the comments (so far):

Pay for speakers, not the amp. When purchasing a sound system, better quality speakers will make more a difference than a better amp.

[ians]

Just for the record this is a wood router for carpentry.

Today i call the distributor to enquire about the machine, i am told the machine is ready for collection. I arrive to collect the machine and request a report, they give me an invoice with a nill balance, so i ask what they found wrong, i am told there is nothing wrong with the machine, they have totally stripped and physically checked every single wire and component on the machine and it is fine. So i load the machine in my van and head back to the workshop.

That is where the fun begins, maybe i have idiot written on my forehead, i arrive back at the workshop, switch the machine on and it actually runs, i release the trigger and reactivate it, nothing dead as disco, i plug the machine into 3 different power sources, nothing dead as disco, so the fluke meter, test plugs, etc come out and i start verifying that there is not a volt drop which could cause the machine to stop running, 231 volts indicating on the screen , the led lights on the machine are on indicating that the the fault is not on the machine cable, i leave the machine in the state as it is with the led lights on the trigger activated fluke meter connected via my test rig, so that who ever they send can see for themselves that the machine is not working. I contact the distributor and i am put through to the boss man, who makes his way over to my workshop to see for himself what all the fuss is about. When he arrives the machine is still as i left it, he takes a look tries to ge tthe machine to work, no such luck. I disconnect everything, but before he leaves i tell him to watch carefully, i take the machine from him and plug it back into the same plug and tell him that i will put money on it that the machine will now run, i pull the trigger and it runs. Personally i believe the machine should be replaced, but i was told they would replace a few parts and try again. What i find rather strange is that if they stripped and checked the machine and didnt find anything wrong, what parts are they going to replace?

People wonder why i am now so fussy about stuff that i buy and why if the item has so much as a hair line scratch on it, it goes back and gets replaced before i have to waste hours running backwards and forward over a stupid little thing like this. I am in two minds whether i shouldnt just cut my loses and tell them to keep the machine, i have wasted so much time running back and forwards with this router. The amount time i have lost at work i could have just bought a new one.

[ians]

On A side note


Pay for speakers, not the amp. When purchasing a sound system, better quality speakers will make more a difference than a better amp.

Just for the record this is the most expensive top of the range router that is available form this supplier, who would normally be rated just below festool, when it comes to quality of their products.