Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Charge for serious disrespect

  1. #1
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    johannesburg
    Posts
    200
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts

    Charge for serious disrespect

    An employee (truck driver) showed serious disrespect when talking to me on the phone
    What charge do i put for hearing?

  2. #2
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    20,980
    Thanks
    3,055
    Thanked 2,463 Times in 2,068 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Depends on the exact content of the "conversation". Charges I've seen that may be applicable are insubordination, gross insubordination, threatening a fellow employee, failure/refusal to comply with a legitimate instruction...
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  3. #3
    Bronze Member dfsa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    SA
    Posts
    166
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    Depends on the exact content of the "conversation". Charges I've seen that may be applicable are insubordination, gross insubordination, threatening a fellow employee, failure/refusal to comply with a legitimate instruction...
    What Dave said and more: First you need to look at the following:
    What is your position in the company?
    Did you raise your voice when you conversed with him?
    How long was he on the road when you spoke to him?
    What if any instruction did you gave to him?
    Is he reporting directly to you?
    What time did you converse with him?
    Has he received any previous warnings, verbal or written and for what offense?

  4. #4
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    johannesburg
    Posts
    200
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
    I'm the transport manager. My tone was low, i was informing him that i want him to come and do a delivery to a client
    And he was not on the road, but home... i had given him time off and told him i will call him if i have a load to be done, no specific amount of time off or days was given as i was expecting an order from a client but did not know when the client will place it as client was not sure

    So, instead of letting him stay in the truck for days (sleep in parking yard in truck) i thought rather send him home to rest in better enviroment and will call him when i need him
    I actually called him on wednesday morning to advise of the delivery i wanted him to do on friday (i had given him time off from prev week on thursday)

    And he does not have prev warnings or offences
    Only thing i have since picked up from other drivers is that he is a very close friend of a driver that was fired a month back for causing a R 15,000 loss to the company
    And they have been seeing eachother more in last days

  5. #5
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    johannesburg
    Posts
    200
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
    i think gross insubordination will work...but how do i put it?
    gross insubordination in that you......(how do i put this)

    this labour things are not easy at all

  6. #6
    New Member georgevorster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Port Elizabeth
    Posts
    8
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Be careful! Insubordination and disrespect are 2 totally different things, and as such must be treated differently.
    Was the employee rude or insolent? Or did the employee refuse to carry out an legitimate instruction?
    The manner in which the charges are formulated must ensure that the elements of the actual misconduct are identified and included in the charge.
    Ultimately, these elements must be proven to secure a guilty finding.

  7. #7
    Platinum Member sterne.law@gmail.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durban
    Posts
    1,328
    Thanks
    38
    Thanked 561 Times in 410 Posts
    Blog Entries
    7
    I am unsure has to what transpired once you called him.
    Was he disrespectful but still do the delivery.
    Or refused to do the delivery?
    Key difference between insubordination and insolence
    Insubordination - is the refusal to obey a reasonable demand
    Insolence - cheeky, disrespectful, etc
    Gross - refers to the level of insolence/insubordination. (This is where the issues of company position, manner of speaking, nature of task refused (and repercussions thereof), and such would be factored in to determine the severity of the offense.)
    Importantly a guilty charge of gross could be dismissible on first offense, whereas a straight insolence/insubordination would not normally be dismissible at first offense.
    If in doubt - charge with gross, you can always find guilty but not serious enough to warrant dismissal.
    Anthony Sterne

    www.acumenholdings.co.za
    DISCLAIMER The above is merely a comment in discussion form and an open public arena. It does not constitute a legal opinion or professional advice in any manner or form.

  8. #8
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    johannesburg
    Posts
    200
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
    thanks guys

    i charged him with gross insubordination and gross insolence
    he refused to do the delivery stating that he did most of that route before and other drivers did less of that route
    but that was because those orders came while other trucks were out and he was available, otherwise no driver has a dedicated truck or route
    i schedule as per truck and driver availability

    i got an independed person to chair the hearing next week

    i'm tired of this guy, how do u employ a driver and he wants to tell u how he wants to work?
    this coutry is not business friendly at all

  9. #9
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    20,980
    Thanks
    3,055
    Thanked 2,463 Times in 2,068 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by SSS100 View Post
    i got an independed person to chair the hearing next week
    Good move.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  10. #10
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    johannesburg
    Posts
    200
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
    thanks for all your inputs guys, much appreciated

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Question] VAT - when to charge
    By elaine25 in forum Tax Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 18-Jan-12, 12:54 AM
  2. Who is in charge?
    By Dave A in forum South African Politics Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-Jul-11, 09:47 PM
  3. How to charge interest?
    By ruth in forum National Credit Act Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 16-Aug-10, 09:00 AM
  4. [Question] Inadvertent Omission of Disciplinary Charge by Employer and Confiscation of Property
    By sagren in forum Labour Relations and Legislation Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 14-Jun-10, 02:08 PM

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •