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Thread: Rewiring old ballast type light fittings for LED tubes

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isetech View Post
    I have received a 38 page test report from Mesmerise issued on 25 Jan 2021. the test was carried out by Anbotek product safety.

    The light is tested as per IEC 60598-2-1:1979+A1:1987 AND IEC 60598-1:2014+A1:2017

    I would assume the IEC standard takes preference over SANS standards and therefore you dont have to adhere to all the requirements of SANS regs?

    Why should should we bother with SANS regs if everyone is using IEC standards, why don't they just scrap SANS regs?
    Ok, here I am really reaching far back, so I may not be accurate, but I am in the ballpark.
    Some time ago I was part of a discussion where it was stated that SANS regs are paramount, but if an imported item has an IEC Standard then that is acceptable, as both standards are similar and based upon each other.
    I cannot recall where that discussion took place unfortunately but I do remember it was official.

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    Ok, here I am really reaching far back, so I may not be accurate, but I am in the ballpark.
    Some time ago I was part of a discussion where it was stated that SANS regs are paramount, but if an imported item has an IEC Standard then that is acceptable, as both standards are similar and based upon each other.
    I cannot recall where that discussion took place unfortunately but I do remember it was official.

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    I have already made the labels, wiring looms with the fuse holder, I am busy with a dispute at the moment were I am working on a site already because between the ECA, the elctrical contractor, the landlord, my customer and now an attorney, I dont want the other company to have anything to point fingers at me. I rather do it by the book and just keep throwing the book at them.

    People say there is no grey area, well this subject has just taken the grey area to a new level. As I sit here and type, does the light have to have labels on the lamp holders , a wiring diagram, a fuse on both lamps, can you use a starter as a fuse, do you even need a fuse if the light is imported and tested in a lab somewhere in China or do all these rules only apply to retrofits done in SA?

  3. #43
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    Before you start retrofitting you will also need to get SANS 1664, SANS 60598-1 and read these documents

    FIG 2 - new installation. This brother E550WVP is an awesome machine for making labels.



    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just a note with regards to labels, some of the LED lamps suppliers supply a label with their lamps.

    I have also found lamps which have a retrofit kits in the boxes with the lamp, in which case you would retrofit the fitting according to the documents supplied with the lamp and the SANS reg would no longer be applicable ?

  4. #44
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    Thank you for figure 2. I can't begin to imagine why they mark the fuse with the letter "p"?

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leecatt View Post
    Thank you for figure 2. I can't begin to imagine why they mark the fuse with the letter "p"?

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    And round like the glow starter. "A glow starter shall not be used as a fuse holder". I wonder if AC/DC have an IEC standard for their fittings, which allows them to use a glow starter base for the fuse?

  6. #46
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    What an incredible thread thank you !

    All these labels and warning to stop an flourri going into an LED retro fit but at the end of the day most people replace a like for like and replacing the same... At some point natural selection needs to start taking place hahah.... (I do joke )

    Anyway I asked a few weeks back even for the spec sheet so I could see the Current carrying capacity of a cable and the guy said sorry we don't have it.

    This is a massive wholesaler too.

    So now had to go Google the company to find out... I have not yet because I don't have time and I only asked as was curious.

    but still we told we need to have a hand over pack of every thing we have installed yet we can't get the info and if I tell the client im billing you 2hours to scroll Google and try find and print a spec sheet they will tell me where to get off.

    Still very cool thread thank you !





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  7. #47
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    If you buy certain lamps, a sticker identifying that the fitting has be "modfied" for an LED will be supplied with the lamp.

    I found connectors at AC/DC for around R20 inc vat, too expensive considering the fittings should already have a connector.

    Then I considered a fuse holder which could either be drilled into the side of the fitting, but you dont want to modify the fitting by drilling a hole into it.

    So the the solution, electro comp sell a fuse cap which just clips onto each end of the fuse, double sleeve it with heat shrink and walla a cheap easy way to a fuse on each lamp. It makes no difference were you install the fuse considering it is not there to protect the wire. The fuse should never blow, because you have labels on the outside of the fitting identifying that it has been modified, your lamp holders are identified with a L-N, so you should never blow the fuse when you fit a Pioled lamp.

    By the way anyone looking for retrofit "kits" complete with lamp holder, 1mm solid panel wire, fuses and labels, they will be ready for sale by the end of the week. Making retrofit to 4/5 ft fittings cheaper and easier then replacing the fitting.

    Some might say it is cheaper to replace the whole fitting, anyone who has replaced an old solid Lascon fitting which still has solid copper wire, with a new absolute piece crap tin rubbish will know why we dont.

    The other issue is labour cost, the time it takes to disconnect the wires remove the whole fitting, then have to drill holes to align the new fitting with the holes or drill new holes in the steel structure then fit the new scrap tin fitting which dont have the correct labels and in most cases dont have the fuse, nor SANS approval (only some international approval).

    Which brings me to another issue we are presented with in the industry, "copper tinned" wire, something which is going to required some form of regulation. The easiest way to identify, just take a lighter and burn the wire, it it melts, its tinned copper, if it glows red and doesnt melt, its a good chance is is solid copper.


    Something I will check the next time I open a new 5 ft open channel light.

    Everyone happy and fully understand the rules for retrofitting a light with an LED ?
    Last edited by Isetech; 22-May-22 at 04:28 PM.

  8. #48
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    Just make sure your fuse and holder is rated to 250 volts. Now that we know that we dont need products to be SANS approved, so long as the product has some international approval from some lab somewhere in the world.


    https://fuse-china.en.made-in-china....ass-Fuses.html

  9. #49
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    I never knew about this retrofit thing and that there are standards for it so thank you so much for that as well!

    Will start doing the labels and diagrams as above.

    Second will write an email to supplier and manufacturer asking for standards and attach that email with a letterhead stating no response to try extra CYA

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  10. #50
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    Why did I waste so much time going into details about these requirements, because you might think, I couldnt be bothered to retrofit a lamp, rather just replace it with an IEC approved fittings, which seems dont require a fuse or any of the other requirements like labels, etc(I dont have the code so I am just going on approved light fittings being supplied by all the electrical wholesalers) , would you be able to issue a COC with all the information shared in this thread?

    You might also say that its not required because the fitting was not retrofitted, so the regs don't apply. Look at it like this, you replace one fitting in a building with an IEC approved LED light fitting shell with no label identifying it is an LED shell and no fuse, but all the others are still standard 5 ft's, shouldn't the reg apply to any fitting that can take a standard lamp. The lamp holder for all LED lamps would need to be modified so that it cannot take a standard 5 ft lamp to prevent someone installing a standard lamp for any reason. I dont think there was much thought put into this LED lamp retrofit issue, or someone has just tried to find a way around the real issue.

    At the end of the day if you work in a property were for example, a company has done a retrofit and you are required to issue a supplementary COC, for additions you have done on the site which requires a supplementary COC, you would be required to inform the customer that the original COC is not valid if all these condition are followed by the book.

    Even worse, if you do a COC for a property which is being sold or for insurance, etc and the light fittings in the building have been retrofitted and don't comply with all these requirements, you will become liable for all the expanses to bring those lights up to standard, eeeeish.

    Dont forget to ask for the relevant information related to the modification which was collated by the installer and given to the user to be kept in a technical file, as per 3.3 i) of the code

    This thread has gone the same route as the ZA socket, just smile and shake your head.

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