Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: A culture of non-payment

  1. #1
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    22,648
    Thanks
    3,304
    Thanked 2,676 Times in 2,257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12

    A culture of non-payment

    It is with some regret that I have to point out that there are those amongst us who habitually do not pay their bills. These people have been a scourge amongst well intentioned business owners for ages and I'm sure they consider us their legitimate prey.

    I have until now thought that the difficulty here was the cost of collection, but have also considered the cost of defence as a reasonable deterrent to a culture of non-payment becoming widespread. I'm afraid my understanding of the cost of defence has been rather rudely shattered.

    I have just suffered at the hands of a legal gambit that is so diabolical, I have serious concerns about describing it to you here. The legal fraternity is, I am very sure, well familiar with this gambit, as well as battle hardened business owners who have suffered under it.

    But no one talks about it. It has never been suggested by any legal counsel I have spoken to over some twenty years as a strategy or challenge I might use or face. I have never heard any business owner talk about it at any time when we've chatted about the pleasures of trying to prise what is owed to us from the hands of the reluctant to pay.

    And I can only think that it is because if everyone knew, the repercussions would be dire indeed. It would certainly be the end of once-off and casual credit at the very least. In fact, as best I can tell, the only viable defence against this gambit is to not provide any service or goods until they are fully paid for in advance, or to have a contract in place no weaker than what banks present us with when supplying us with a credit card.

    Either of which would certainly lead to a rather stressful shift in our entire economic structure.

    I have also determined that a few simple changes would remove this gambit from our lives forever. But to establish a new precedent that goes against established practice is not easy.

    And so I sit on the horns of a dilemma.

    Should I even publish the details of this gambit here? I want to warn fellow business owners of it, but it would also then fall in the hands of the unscrupulous but as yet unknowing.

    My thoughts so far:
    1. If I should publish it, I can do it in the Members area. Then at least, should we decide that it would be in the general interest that the thread be deleted, we won't have a copy of it sitting in a search engine cache somewhere.

    2. Possibly the best way to bring about the change needed to remove the threat of this gambit would be if there was massive use of it. Ironically, a widespread culture of non-payment that consistently used this gambit would probably be the best chance of bringing about the changes needed to end it forever.

    So - what are your thoughts? What should I and we do about this?
    Last edited by Dave A; 21-Mar-07 at 08:54 AM.

  2. #2
    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    2,642
    Thanks
    119
    Thanked 94 Times in 77 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    My thoughts so far:
    1. If I should publish it, I can do it in the Members area. Then at least, should we decide that it would be in the general interest that the thread be deleted, we won't have a copy of it sitting in a search engine cache somewhere.

    2. Possibly the best way to bring about the change needed to remove the threat of this gambit would be if there was massive use of it. Ironically, a widespread culture of non-payment that consistently used this gambit would probably be the best chance of bringing about the one change needed to end it forever.
    Do you think there is any chance that we, as a community, could cause a change to this practice? i.e. any chance we don't have to go the route of widespread non-payment?
    [SIGPIC]Engineer Simplicity[/SIGPIC]
    Turn ideas into products | The Art of Engineering blog

  3. #3
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    22,648
    Thanks
    3,304
    Thanked 2,676 Times in 2,257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by dsd View Post
    Do you think there is any chance that we, as a community, could cause a change to this practice? i.e. any chance we don't have to go the route of widespread non-payment?
    We're fighting precedent. It's going to take something quite drastic to change it.

  4. #4
    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    2,642
    Thanks
    119
    Thanked 94 Times in 77 Posts
    Two suggestions, 1) conduct a conversation via PM with people who you feel can be trusted in this sensitive info, or 2) setup a forum for people who's identities can be confirmed.

    With both there is no guarantee that the info will not spread, although it is not a good idea for a business owner to spread info that may result in them not getting paid.
    [SIGPIC]Engineer Simplicity[/SIGPIC]
    Turn ideas into products | The Art of Engineering blog

  5. #5
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    561
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 49 Times in 32 Posts
    I'm not sure how you want to go about changing an entire nations mindset? Please do tell! Ditto on what dsd said as to how!
    Regards

    Debbie
    debbie@stafftraining.co.za

    From reception to management training, assertiveness, accountability or interviewing skills, we have a wide range of training workshops available for you!
    www.stafftraining.co.za

    Find us on
    Facebook

  6. #6
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    361
    Thanks
    51
    Thanked 41 Times in 32 Posts
    Surely you are not responsible for other peoples moral values.

    Tell us any way you see fit! but please tell us. "Pre-warned is pre-armed".

    I presume that you might be referring to something in the Credit Control Act?

    Yvonne Symons

  7. #7
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    22,648
    Thanks
    3,304
    Thanked 2,676 Times in 2,257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Firstly, thank you everyone who has taken the time to add to this thread. With your input and some time to think it through, I've pretty well worked out what seems the best way to do this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvonne Symons View Post
    "Pre-warned is pre-armed".
    I'm hoping to pre-warn and pre-arm.
    the only viable defence against this gambit is to not provide any service or goods until they are fully paid for in advance, or to have a contract in place no weaker than what banks present us with when supplying us with a credit card.
    I'm going to try to compile some standard clauses we should all include in our documentation and have the customer sign before we allow casual credit. And with it I'll release the details of the gambit; hopefully sufficient motivation for business owners to actually take the time to implement it within their business.

    In the meantime, it might be insightful to answer a couple of questions now if you have the time:

    Do you insist your client sign a contract before you commence providing goods/services, or a delivery note, or anything else?

    If yes, what sort of fine print is included in that documentation?

  8. #8
    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    2,642
    Thanks
    119
    Thanked 94 Times in 77 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    Do you insist your client sign a contract before you commence providing goods/services, or a delivery note, or anything else?
    Sometimes I sign their document (or a modified version) and sometime we sign mine, but I have no consistent "terms of engagement." What the process that I'm going through at the moment has taught me is that it is time to have an attorney set up a good and fair contract for me to use.
    [SIGPIC]Engineer Simplicity[/SIGPIC]
    Turn ideas into products | The Art of Engineering blog

  9. #9
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    561
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 49 Times in 32 Posts
    I don't believe I am the one to be helping here, as we have a strict cash upfront 21 days in advance policy! It changed my life!
    Regards

    Debbie
    debbie@stafftraining.co.za

    From reception to management training, assertiveness, accountability or interviewing skills, we have a wide range of training workshops available for you!
    www.stafftraining.co.za

    Find us on
    Facebook

  10. #10
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    22,648
    Thanks
    3,304
    Thanked 2,676 Times in 2,257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Debbiedle View Post
    I don't believe I am the one to be helping here, as we have a strict cash upfront 21 days in advance policy! It changed my life!
    Way to go, Debbie

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Did you like this article? Share it with your favourite social network.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •