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Thread: DIY electrical

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by murdock View Post
    will note your comments and take it up with the electrical bargaining council...maybe i can register my bussiness as a diy company and do electrical work...it will save me plenty money in bargaining council fees.
    That wouldn't quite do as you'd still be doing work on behalf of someone else. I'm not confused about that at all - doing work for someone else is a strict no-no unless you're registered. I thought I pointed that out, that I have no intention to work on anyone's wires but my own, but you seem to want to imply that I'm one of those clueless bakkie handymen for hire? This seems to be your chestnut.

    So how about that chapter & verse reference to the grey SANS book you were mentioning? Have you been able to find it? In the end I'll probably just wire everything up except for the final connection to the circuit breakers - that way both I and whoever issues the CoC will have our peace of mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    I found two threads that go into this in some depth, control and supervision and who may work on an electrical installation.
    I remember those threads and just re-scanned them. Indeed, the *law* may very well have something to say here, and the law certainly has more authority than a national standard. By that I mean that a standard can "allow" something all it likes, it still won't be legal if there's a law that says no. Unfortunately I haven't yet had the chance to look at the OHSA.

    Just as an aside, if DIY installation (again, ONLY on one's own property) is indeed verboten, why do we have Builders Warehouse and probably other consumer-directed stores selling electrical goods that only bona fide electrical contractors should be installing? There really aren't that many people who use circuit breakers, house wire, 4x4 boxes, DBs, light fittings, etc. in ways that don't involve an electrical installation. Electronics hobbyists maybe, but there's like 5 of those in the country - not enough to dedicate 4 whole store isles to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    Years ago I was in a surf shop listening to a youngster trying to get sponsorship. After all the schpiel was over, the shop owner said - "OK. I've heard you tell me how good you are. Trouble is I've had no-one else tell me how good you are."

    DIY is not maligned because of assumed incompetence, it's because there's no verified base line assurance of competence.
    Perhaps, but in one sense I am both the youngster and the shop owner. I wouldn't get very far presenting fake credentials to myself - it's like a built-in reference check. I do take your point though, and it relates to how the OHSA aims to make a place safe, as opposed to merely regulating a particular transaction type in order to [try to] ensure that unknowledgeable consumers are still able to procure safe installations.

    I must disagree though on DIY malignment on this forum. It seems anytime the phrase is mentioned, you get 10 followup posts relating anecdote after anecdote of obviously unqualified work, as if it's automatic that DIY equals unsafe/untidy/nonworking/antichrist. The law of course doesn't concern itself with such self-serving opinions and is more about verification and traceability.

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  4. #13
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Much of the time the standards are deliberately vague to allow courts to decide each case on it's own merit, should the need arise, without them becoming an obstacle IMO. Certified person, qualified person, accredited person, skilled person, supervising person, person in control are not all clear cut descriptions.

    In theory the only thing I know of in the electrical codes that stands in the way of DIY electrical installation is that any alteration or addition to an electrical installation must be accompanied by a certificate of compliance. If this certificate was to be issued by an electrician on a job that he hadn't done he would need to be able to inspect every aspect of that installation.....even cabling which might not be accessible for example.

    I wouldn't say that all work done by unqualified people is problematic but we have an unwritten rule that we will not certify third party alterations or additions unless a complete COC is issued for the premises as a whole. Although this allows us to cover ourselves adequately, more often than not this is cost prohibitive to be used as a workaround by customers who want to use DIY installers. On top of that, usually the failure list is long on these premises as a result of previous work that was performed by similar DIY contractors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyD View Post
    In theory the only thing I know of in the electrical codes that stands in the way of DIY electrical installation is that any alteration or addition to an electrical installation must be accompanied by a certificate of compliance. If this certificate was to be issued by an electrician on a job that he hadn't done he would need to be able to inspect every aspect of that installation.....even cabling which might not be accessible for example.
    andy i would strongly advise that you do some research on this statement...the rules have changed with regards to signing over new work not done by the inspector or under his supervision etc etc

    i have noted that i must be a little more carefull when i reply to threads with regards to control and supervision

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    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murdock View Post
    andy i would strongly advise that you do some research on this statement...the rules have changed with regards to signing over new work not done by the inspector or under his supervision etc etc
    Please feel free to embellish with the appropriate chapter and verse.

    The way I look at it is any time a premises requires certification, like when it changes ownership for example, the qualified person will be certifying the entire original installation along with any alterations or additions the have been performed over the years. It's pretty certain that in all these cases that the certifying electrician will be certifying installations that he hasn't personally installed or supervised the installation.
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    i have an easier way to resolve this debate...anyone ever filled out a certificate of compliance for a new electrical installation which by the way is found in the sans new grey book under section...i am not sure which chapter or verse...one of you bright sparks will have to give us a page number with the chapter and verse..

    if so please direct me to the vers and chapters for each section...and calify how you determined the answer to each question on the document...maybe that will clear up any misunderstanding about who is responsible for what part of the electricial installation...from the design to the purchasing of materials...to the installation and then last but not least the testing.

    i can see where this thread is going...you gona make me put down my captains morgans... squash my cigar roll my wheel chair across to my desk and have to look up the answer in a book which i dont even own yet...i will have ask the warden to get me one

  9. #17
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    As far as I know, we only fill in the "new installation" section if we've done the installation work. In all other instances we stick to the "test only" section of the COC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    As far as I know, we only fill in the "new installation" section if we've done the installation work. In all other instances we stick to the "test only" section of the COC.
    so who fills in the rest of the coc on a new electrical installation?

    the diy fella or do you just cross it out like we do on exsisitng installations?

    this is becoming a real interesting thread.

    something else i was pleased to hear yesterday...some of the consultants are writing a clause into contracts that the cocs which are issued by the elctrical contractor who did the work must be checked and verified by an independent inspector selected by the consultant and not the electrical contractor...mmm maybe we are finally starting to head in the right direction.

    and as the other engineer mentioned they cant even go onto site to start the job unless all their documentation...staff qualification are listed and a 3 day induction course is held to try make the site little safer...the correct clothing and equipment is inspected at the gate "before" they enter the site...its all good news...it may take a little longer to get onto site but it makes it safer for other people working on the site...there is nothing more dangerous than working on a construction site with...uneducated...unskilled...people with bad working habits and unsafe equipment.

  11. #19
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murdock View Post
    the diy fella or do you just cross it out like we do on exsisitng installations?
    We do it the same as for existing installations.

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