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  1. #1
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    A culture of non-payment

    It is with some regret that I have to point out that there are those amongst us who habitually do not pay their bills. These people have been a scourge amongst well intentioned business owners for ages and I'm sure they consider us their legitimate prey.

    I have until now thought that the difficulty here was the cost of collection, but have also considered the cost of defence as a reasonable deterrent to a culture of non-payment becoming widespread. I'm afraid my understanding of the cost of defence has been rather rudely shattered.

    I have just suffered at the hands of a legal gambit that is so diabolical, I have serious concerns about describing it to you here. The legal fraternity is, I am very sure, well familiar with this gambit, as well as battle hardened business owners who have suffered under it.

    But no one talks about it. It has never been suggested by any legal counsel I have spoken to over some twenty years as a strategy or challenge I might use or face. I have never heard any business owner talk about it at any time when we've chatted about the pleasures of trying to prise what is owed to us from the hands of the reluctant to pay.

    And I can only think that it is because if everyone knew, the repercussions would be dire indeed. It would certainly be the end of once-off and casual credit at the very least. In fact, as best I can tell, the only viable defence against this gambit is to not provide any service or goods until they are fully paid for in advance, or to have a contract in place no weaker than what banks present us with when supplying us with a credit card.

    Either of which would certainly lead to a rather stressful shift in our entire economic structure.

    I have also determined that a few simple changes would remove this gambit from our lives forever. But to establish a new precedent that goes against established practice is not easy.

    And so I sit on the horns of a dilemma.

    Should I even publish the details of this gambit here? I want to warn fellow business owners of it, but it would also then fall in the hands of the unscrupulous but as yet unknowing.

    My thoughts so far:
    1. If I should publish it, I can do it in the Members area. Then at least, should we decide that it would be in the general interest that the thread be deleted, we won't have a copy of it sitting in a search engine cache somewhere.

    2. Possibly the best way to bring about the change needed to remove the threat of this gambit would be if there was massive use of it. Ironically, a widespread culture of non-payment that consistently used this gambit would probably be the best chance of bringing about the changes needed to end it forever.

    So - what are your thoughts? What should I and we do about this?
    Last edited by Dave A; 21-Mar-07 at 08:54 AM.

  2. #2
    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    My thoughts so far:
    1. If I should publish it, I can do it in the Members area. Then at least, should we decide that it would be in the general interest that the thread be deleted, we won't have a copy of it sitting in a search engine cache somewhere.

    2. Possibly the best way to bring about the change needed to remove the threat of this gambit would be if there was massive use of it. Ironically, a widespread culture of non-payment that consistently used this gambit would probably be the best chance of bringing about the one change needed to end it forever.
    Do you think there is any chance that we, as a community, could cause a change to this practice? i.e. any chance we don't have to go the route of widespread non-payment?
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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsd View Post
    Do you think there is any chance that we, as a community, could cause a change to this practice? i.e. any chance we don't have to go the route of widespread non-payment?
    We're fighting precedent. It's going to take something quite drastic to change it.

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    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    Two suggestions, 1) conduct a conversation via PM with people who you feel can be trusted in this sensitive info, or 2) setup a forum for people who's identities can be confirmed.

    With both there is no guarantee that the info will not spread, although it is not a good idea for a business owner to spread info that may result in them not getting paid.
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    I'm not sure how you want to go about changing an entire nations mindset? Please do tell! Ditto on what dsd said as to how!
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    Surely you are not responsible for other peoples moral values.

    Tell us any way you see fit! but please tell us. "Pre-warned is pre-armed".

    I presume that you might be referring to something in the Credit Control Act?

    Yvonne Symons

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    Small business owners frequently “fly by the seat of their pants” when it comes to credit control, and yet this is one of the most likely reasons for a small business’s financial failure.

    We are in a niche market and generally our total monthly exposure is spread across a wide range of clients, we have been able to manage our bad debt risk by controlling 30 days from invoice terms.

    There has been a slow change in our client base to a higher exposure, and we now feel that we need to be more professional in our handling of our credit control.

    I have been told that it is possible to obtain a report when a credit application is originally considered, but the real requirement is notification if a company has “changes” in its financial affairs.

    Is it worth paying for credit reports? Are they accurate? is fair warning given timeously?

    How do the majority of small business owners handle their credit control?

    Yvonne

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    Platinum Member Marq's Avatar
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    I found in the past that credit reports were just confirmation of stuff that one already knows. The information is usually old and the quality dubious.

    The best info usually comes from references and keeping your ears to the ground. Keeping close contact and going with gut feel is still the best.

    Make sure your risk is spread and you are not open in any one area. Any large deals should have some homework done. Besides getting more refs, check the company's details at cipro. I am not sure if one can still get a bank report worth anything still and a check at the credit bureaus for judgements and legal stuff should be obtained.

    The best deal of course is cash up front, but if you can get a large deposit or some form of guarantee then thats good.
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    For such a tiny part time business that I run I only see cash and hardly have any contract. I admit however that I once rendered my services to EThekwini Municipality and I was afraid to wait for payment but nonetheless there was no deliquency on that.

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    Silver Member Frankincense's Avatar
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    ....technological involvement....

    Identification
    RFID Bio Chip Implant - only means to transact

    Authorisation
    Authority to be Truth, and not Truth to be Authority

    Debt recovery issues
    None - Chip De-activation - Transactional Incapacitation

    ....roll out....


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