Everyone knows South Africans don't pay

[BusFact]

the way i see it is if they cant put at least 50 % at least up front how will they pay the bill when the time comes to pay.

Exactly. Good point. Its like the earlier comment in this thread where it was mentioned that some "begged" for credit. Thats a sign that they are using you as their banker. Beware .... unless you run a bank of sorts.

[desA]

And when customers don't pay on time, it puts stress on you paying your own creditors on time. It's a vicious circle

Good points, Dave.

The Asian Crisis of 1997 occurred when the knock-on effect was significant-enough to bring down the house-of-cards. I wonder just how bad the real situation in SA really is? Imagine if a law was suddenly enacted to force debtors to clear within 30 days.

[desA]

Must say we have had it pretty good and we get most easily. We do ask for 70% upfront and most people are fine, have negotiated a few bigger progressive ones. At the end of the day though it means i dont need credit to get the job done nor do i give credit.

Lost one or 2 jobs cause of it, but experience also says that guys that query terms of payment are often the problem ones. The references are there for them to call and see...

A good up-front negotiator to get to 70% upfront.

Any tips?

[desA]

A true story:

I was working in Sweden as a consultant to one of the largest global copper strip suppliers. Around 15th of the month, the President's secretary began pressing me for my monthly invoice. She wanted it early in order to ensure that I was paid by 25th of the month.

The Nordic countries are incredibly honest & an absolute pleasure to work for - in terms of payment for services rendered.

Apparently there are laws to enforce payment within societal structures. It considered to be a total no-no to not pay your bills. 30 days is considered to be an extremely strange payment structure. If someone owes money & is reported, a local law-enforcement representative will either collect payment, or sell off assets in order to settle the amounts. This is a very fair system.

[Dave A]

I wonder just how bad the real situation in SA really is?

Me too. I've seen some very good payers become decidedly erratic over the last couple of years - and I'm not buying that it's admin problems.

[flaker]

this is not fair. it is so one sided. what about those consumers that are good payers & NEVER get their jobs completed or if completed never satisfactorily. some personal examples of these doings i can easily pen down. and those shysters that that ask for your 50% upfront for materials & use these moneys to pay their o/due accounts and you're then left with making calls and empty promises. i've had my fair share of this.how do u sift the good guys from the bad guys? i acknowledge that all u folks with the earlier postings are good guys
but a first timer using your services with a 70% down payment will have sleepless nights cause he's never sure if delivery of the service he has paid for as promised will ever materialise.

[Martinco]

but a first timer using your services with a 70% down payment will have sleepless nights cause he's never sure if delivery of the service he has paid for as promised will ever materialise.

Very true ! This practice is on the uptake and many people get taken for mega bucks.
I am sure the secret is to do some research first and get references but this is still not a guarantee .

[murdock]

a customer got caught out by a builder who insisted on a deposit...she was using her pension payout to build a granny flat.

what none of us knew was that he had sub ontracted all the work out including the building work...got all the subbies to start and show progress...dumped a pile of rubbish...old planks and stuff on site...put in for the deposit and progress payment...she paid him out R70 000.00 and that was the last we ever saw of him...

he made out like he was christian...blessed and prayed for everyone all the time...that is why i am a firm believer in action speaks loader than words...going to church on sunday doesnt make you a christian...your actions are what make you a christian.

[IanF]

? i acknowledge that all u folks with the earlier postings are good guys but a first timer using your services with a 70% down payment will have sleepless nights cause he's never sure if delivery of the service he has paid for as promised will ever materialise.

Hi Flaker
I have "lost" business because of this deposit practice.
If guys want to know why I just say with over 10 years in the business this is what works for us. I had one person say to me on a R9000 job go ahead here is the deposit, I will check the printing when you deliver and if satisfied pay the balance. We then printed a sample and he was happy and did not want to check the final prints, and paid the balance on delivery. This is easier now when do digital prints but litho prints it take 15-30 minutes to setup a press before you get saleable prints. So litho we print a digital proof which approximates the litho prints and most people are happy with that. What you are guarding against is the customer who wants the impossible and if you have a deposit they are always more reasonable if they think there is a problem. But you can pick up this most times when you are asked for a quote.

[desA]

A useful marker I've used over the years in SA is that of large hot-oil heating devices. The seller uses something like a 60%/30%/10% deposit/ex works/after delivery-commissioning.

Many large projects have to be built with progressive payments. Many have large up-front payments.

In my experience, the vast burden of risk appears to be for the service provider, not customer. If the customer does his/her homework properly, there should be little problem in getting a good product, or result. Everyone has had bad experiences with South Africans not paying their bills. Ask a friend living in London about the reputation of many South Africans. You may not like what you hear.