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Thread: Warranty forfeit OK??

  1. #11
    Diamond Member wynn's Avatar
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    I am sure that if you word it along the lines of;
    On purchasing this product/service warranties are guaranteed, callouts however are only covered if your monthly payments are current, should you fall into arears an up front payment will be required before a 'call out' will be effected. Then sting them if they are in arrears.

    So really you are saying 'I fully guarantee this product/service but if you don't pay, I aint coming to fix it'
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  2. #12
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    I've been thinking about the electronics involved with a mechanism to disable the fence automatically after 3 months. It's actually very simple to do with a microprocessor.

    Have 2 led's:
    Power.
    Call Technician.

    Under normal circumstances the power led will be on and the Call Technician led will be off.

    Now lets say you install the device and the customer hasn't paid you yet. To indicate this have the power led blink (this will show that the device is in "Self destruct" mode) The system simply accumulates time by counting clock cycles devided by hours or days. Once enough cycles have been accumulated flip a relay. The normal connection will be via COM / NC which means that the relay has to be set for the system to be disabled. Now light the Call Technician led and have the device sound an irritating alarm. To disable the alarm have the microprocessor do the following: monitor on an off switch times. Say: turn the device off, on 3 sec, off 3 sec, on 3 sec sec and on. This will allow you to talk the user through resetting the system. To make the process easier have the system delay for 15 secs on start up before sounding the alarm, this allows the user to reset the alarm while the device is quiet.

    You can do all of this with a R50 circuit having a PIC 12F675 (including glue circuitry) and a relay.

  3. #13
    Platinum Member sterne.law@gmail.com's Avatar
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    This clause is a problem now and even more so once the CPA kicks in.

    Firstly the warranty of a product is linked to a product and is a part of it in that it is sold as a feature and not a benefit. You cant then sell me a product and then remove a part of it without the neccessary court procedures.
    A debtor has a remedy for poor payment - obviously via a process, or may repossess the goods, also pending the correct procedures.
    you make no mention of if the payment is made does the warranty come back into effect.
    If you are removing a warranty, then you are placing a value to it and by so doing you tacitly imply that the purchase price includes a payment for the warranty, thus if you remove it you will need to refund the client for that portion

    Of course another issue is taht if a person has no money to pay the account, they wont have money to see an attorney!!!!!!!!! Although it is amazing how money can be found for certain things and not paying acounts
    In terms of the CPA the following will be relevant and will leave you in an even worse position -

    Firstly all products are sold with an implied warranty. this warranty extends for 6 months and is in addition to any other warranty. on this basis, if the client has not paid within 6 months there are presumably some more pressing and serious issues at hand, not to mention serious cash flow problems.
    The CPA also does not allow for any contract that forces you to forfeit or waiver rights in terms of the act - which the warranty of 6 months is.

    The practice of not mentioning to a client, that a warranty, rightly or wrongly, will not be honoured if payment is not made, only when at issue is a problem.
    In terms of the CPA such clauses must be brought to the attention of the client. The most common practice is to put these clauses in bold so they stand out and the seller need not defend themself as to if they did or didnot point out the relevant clause.

    the one way around it may be as follows -
    products are sold and obviously come with the 6 month implied warranty in terms of the CPA. Clients who pay for the goods within 3 months then become entitled to a further 6 month warranty (depending on what your current warranty terms are) as a type of early payment discount. (this may be skirting on the edge but will probably leave you better positioned than the current one)
    Last edited by sterne.law@gmail.com; 28-Oct-10 at 10:12 AM. Reason: bright idea
    Anthony Sterne

    www.acumenholdings.co.za
    DISCLAIMER The above is merely a comment in discussion form and an open public arena. It does not constitute a legal opinion or professional advice in any manner or form.

  4. Thanks given for this post:

    AndyD (28-Oct-10)

  5. #14
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    It's viable from an electronics point of view but systems like this are not generally difficult to reverse engineer or workaround. The added expense might be throwing good money after bad and it might even reduce your chances of getting paid if the customer finds out about it.
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    @AndyD

    The guy who buys an electric fence ain't going to go through a reverse engineering exercise.

    You ain't gonna reverse engineer a device cast in potting compound - I've done enough reverse engineering myself and know full well how to stop reverse engineering.

  7. #16
    Diamond Member AndyD's Avatar
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    Hi Adrian, I also doubt that the buyer would be the one to tamper, if the device stops working and the original supplier declines a warranty they will probably call another technician, that would be where the tampering came from. If there was an internal 'black box' type device preventing operation he would be sure to remove it.
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  8. #17
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    Fair enough.

  9. #18
    Gold Member garthu's Avatar
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    Wow, left it for a day and loads to think about!!!

    Everyone thanks for the input, well appreciated...

    @ Dave - it's really just been an ethical issue. It is currently in our terms but havn't been terribly happy with it. But it is there cause people are quick to order, not always so sharp to pay. Havn't been challenged on it or used it yet. Actually dropping the warranty is of no benefit to us as i know the fence will keep going and the manufacturer keeps the energizer

    @ Adrianh - good idea will keep it mind on bigger projects

    @ Stern Law - thanks for the input on legal and was almost as suspected. Like the solution ALOT!! Not taking, but rather giving..... so much nicer

    @AndyD /Wynn - thanks for the input, the general consensus is people dont like... so be it... have to accept that.

    Damn.. you gotta luv this forum.... solutions like this cost money in minds!

    Thanks all for input
    Garth

    Electric fence Installation : www.midrand-electronics.co.za
    Free Classified Adds : www.bgone.co.za

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